Raising Happy Children With Lisa Savage, LCSW

Psychotherapist Lisa Savage, LCSW is the go to authority when it comes to raising healthy happy children. Invest in their mental health. In our conversation with Pyschotherapist Lisa Savage; on this episode of the Black Therapist Podcast your host psychotherapist Nikita Banks, LCSW who has built the largest psychotherapy practice in Delaware serving Children. Also on this episode spare the rod and other parenting myths, the link between corporal punishment and child rebellion. The need for culturally competent care and why therapist of color need to build a network of other therapist of color.


I am Brooklyn based psychotherapist Nikita Banks and I am your host of The Black therapist podcast the black therapist podcast the podcast where we discuss the unique issues people of color face when dealing with mental health issues and mental health diagnosis. If you would like to reach out to us for feedback or show suggestions show topics, please feel free to contact us at blackberry podcast at gmail. com. You can listen to new or past episodes on SoundCloud, Apple podcast Stitcher, Spotify, YouTube, I Heart Radio and Google Play. If you are having trouble listening to us on your preferred platform, or if you want us to be on a platform that we’re not currently on, make sure that you send us a private message on our Instagram page at Black therapist podcast. Or you can just drop us a message or send us an email at back therapists podcast com. If you want insider tips, resources and access to our free mental health course make sure that you text get happy to 66866 and my new book finding happy seven steps to relationships that will not steal your joy is available right now on Amazon, go to our website or go to our Instagram pages and click the link and purchase because we want to help you get your relationships together for 2018. And beyond these Be mindful that this episode and all the information that we provide here is just a resource and a tool to help get you started on your mental health journey. If you are feeling any mental health distress, or you having any significant issues, please feel free to reach out to us so that we can find you a mental health provider in your area. Okay, let’s go.

Let’s get started.

Hey, guys, on this week’s episode, we have Lisa Savage. She is an amazing businesswoman. She mentors, a lot of young therapists of color that I know, everybody loves her, she has a thriving. And one of the largest I think she said one of the largest group practices in Dallas where where she provides mental health services to, to youth in school. And so I was imperative that I have her on. And it’s imperative that I have her back to talk to us today about how to foster resilience. And young people as well as other things Oh my god. So it comes to my attention off a few platforms I tuned was one or Apple podcast, Google Play, we were having some issues there. If there are any technical glitches in your area, and you’re having an issue listening to our show, please let me know because I want to help resolve those issues. And I did and our numbers exploded. Now it really wasn’t a big deal for me. Because, you know, if there are only seven or eight listeners was they’re not, they’re a lot more than that. But they’re only seven, eight listeners, it’s my intention to be the messenger and not control who gets the message. But I think part of what I’ve expressed on this show is the reason that I really do this is because I want to raise awareness about removing the stigma for people of color, getting mental health services. And I can only do that if the platforms work where they work. So I want to thank you guys for bringing that to my attention because I resolve some of those issues. And I’m still working on others, but the traffic is Amai the balls and went thank everybody for listening. And looking at the analytics, I want to give a huge shout out to our listeners and United States, Canada, United Kingdom, United Arab Emirates, South Africa, and Barbados, okay, as well as you I want to thank you for listening wherever it is that you are in the world. Our book finding happy my first book finding happy I actually got the actual copy of the book

came in today

and shout out to Amazon for losing my package and making me wait. I’m teen days for to get my own book. For to see it for to see it. Who the hell am I? What is this Shakespeare anyway, for me to get my book, it took me forever to get it. Shout out to Linda nice or Brooklyn 718. I don’t know what her social media handle is for sending me a picture of her reading my book, if you send me a picture of you reading my book, I’m telling you, I’m gonna do something special for you. I don’t know, I don’t know what yet. But trust me the holidays a comment, I’m gonna have a gift, or a resource or a special tool for you. So I want to shout out the people that I know who proved what the book they’ve they’ve reached out to me, they said they bought the book. And I just want you to know that not only do I appreciate you, but I wrote the book for you.

If 10 people buy the book,

those are the 10 people that needed to have it is how I look at things. I my job as a creative, so only create and allow the audience that needs to have my message hear it. I’m not really tied into what, where it lands. Because sometimes the audience you think that you should be performing in front of is not the audience that is yours. So I want to make sure that I’m just creating content and I’m giving you guys good works. So that I could be helping to improve your life and your lifestyle in a way that promotes health and happiness. And for me, the only way that I know that I can do that is by mastering my mind. And mastering my emotions and my thoughts and my behaviors. That’s the only way that I know that I’m going to be able to be disciplined enough to live the life that I want to live and I want to help you, you know, use me as a resource and use the tools and the information that I have to help improve your life. And like I said, this book probably is not going to make me rich. I think I said that before. It might. My you guys might make me rich off the book about it. But my goal is to bring it to women of color so that you know that you no longer have to suffer through relationships that don’t serve you. Okay, so we are right now going to get into this week’s episode. Once again, we want to welcome Lisa savage to the show. Alright, so, Lisa,

introduce yourself. So my name is Lisa sabarish. I am an LCS w licensed clinical social worker. I actually live in Baltimore. But my practice is in Delaware. near my practice is the Center for Child Development plus also have an adult practice which is called Delaware center for counseling and wellness. So that’s a little bit about who I am professionally.

Okay. And I know you do a lot of work with children. Yep,

yep, I do. So in my child practice, it’s mostly children, although we do work with adults there because kids obviously come attached with an adult, whether or not it’s a parent, a foster parent, or grandparent who’s taking care of that child. So a lot of that practice is almost exclusively community based and school based. And it started with a vision, Nick, that I had, on my gosh, back in probably early 2000s, I had this vision for a practice in Delaware that would serve the needs of children. And and it came because what I saw was a lack of services to children, and particularly children of color. So there was just one agency to still still exist in Delaware, that was serving our kids, but they had waiting lists, and they did not have any theories of color. So that was my vision. And so here we are 18 years later, and my vision has come to fruition. I am, I own the largest private practice in Delaware. So I feel very proud about that. Because I started off as an individual practitioner, I had a little teeny tiny office. But like I said, I had this vision of wanting to provide services to underserved communities, because I saw where their needs are not being met. And how long have you been in business.

So I started my private practice as a solo practitioner back in 2000. And then I, let’s see, my I hired my I hired a part time therapists, probably about in 2002. And then it really took off 2010 is where I experienced the biggest growth. So started off with about five therapist. And now we’re up to 32 therapist and looking to bring on at least three or four more therapists by the end of the year. So really steady, but upward growth. And part of that is because we I had to continue to rise to meet the needs of the community, Dell was very small. It’s a tiny, tiny state. And so because we’re known as community based school based mental health practitioners, we get tons of referrals, because because of what we do and where we do it. So the need for child mental health, unfortunately, is growing, I seeing a steady incline in the needs of children. And their various reasons why we can talk about that later. Why why the need is increasing. But from a business perspective, it has grown out of sheer need to to meet the demand for the services that we provide.

Okay, and if you’ve listened to this show,

listeners know, working with children is not my favorite.

It is exactly what you said is that children come with parents. And it is my belief that

the children is a symptom of something that’s wrong in the family. Not the problem. Yep. And what happens is that adults are less pliable to change than the children are,


Yep. And my role as a therapist, with anybody but especially with children, is to give them a voice and honor that.

And that is against everything that my mother wanted

me to have.

She just needed me to shut up and do what she said. And so, uh huh. Yeah. For me, the challenge of working with children is not something that I that I even think about doing. as much. Yeah, why?

Initially, I got into the business to work with children. But how is it that you were able to kind of make these connections with the child and the family? And yeah, in school? Because it’s very hard to do. I’ve done that work before.

Right? I mean, that’s a very, very good question, because working with kids is very difficult. And I want to hear Yeah, a lot of young, my niece is getting her master’s in social work. And she’s like, oh, at least I want to work with kids. And I often challenge her about why she wants to work with kids, because it’s very, very hard work. We work with a lot of kids who have wounding from their environments, trauma, from their environments, trauma that’s been passed down from generation to generation to generation. And so these kids come with a level of distrust, emotional dysregulation, meaning they have a hard time regulating their emotions, so they, you know, may have temper tantrums, they may become aggressive, defiant. So, I did not start out wanting to be a child therapist. I mean, that was not what I was you like most therapists, I want to work with adults. But I started, what I realized, it’s really funny is that when my when I was growing up, my mom was a teacher. So they were always kids around, always kids around. And what I realized, as I started working professionally with kids is that I had a unique ability to connect with kids. And I always liked working in the inner city, I felt like those kids or kids who come from the inner city were kids that I could relate the most to. And I think because of the genuineness, the, the the desire to really connect with them, the desire to really hear them, and to be present with them, is really, to me the therapy. Now, since I become a child therapist, I’ve gotten tons of training. And I have tons of experience working with kids, I had 18 years of experience working with kids ages two years and up. But in my opinion, and this is my professional opinion, the relationship and your ability to connect with kids, is the healing part. So I tell therapists that I supervise, please don’t worry about the techniques in the beginning, please don’t worry about this theory, please focus on showing up for that kid, being consistent, setting limits with that kid. And showing that you care. If you can establish that in the beginning, then you can make tremendous growth with that with that child. And so as I discovered, I had that ability to do that with children, teenagers. I knew that that was my calling. I knew that working. And I do still see it also. But I knew that I had to rise to that calling. And plus the dream that I had about having this private practice that focuses exclusively on kids. But it really is about being sincere kids, as you know, can pick up on people who aren’t sincere, who don’t care about them. They really can. And I’m when I work with teachers, like I try to tell them, you’re not going to get anywhere with kids unless you’re able to establish relationship with them, yelling, screaming at them, he’s just not going to do it. And so understanding that knowing how to connect with kids, I think, has helped me to be a better therapist, but also helped me be able to train other providers in doing the same thing.

My niece as well is a therapist. XE she just got her elements W and now I’m, she’s she’s working. And she said the same exact thing. Oh, wow. I want to be a school therapist. And I’m like, you don’t even like him. Yeah.

Yeah, to know your limits. And

so they actually Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. And she, she’s working, I think in DC for kind of a mobile crisis email that goes into the school. Okay. Cool. And the challenges that she faces? She tells me, yeah, it’s so imperative. You, I’m sure that your niece knows this now. But you’re, you’re like a mentor to a lot of people. But it’s so imperative to kind of have somebody to talk about these issues in the things that you go through in the field, because when I graduated, I didn’t really have any black ppl. Yeah. Yep. Talk about what the hell was going on?

You got it.

And then even with my partner, I would come home and I would be like, he would, he would try me.

And then I would be like, Well, you know what, let’s, let’s really talk about what what’s really going on with the underlying issues? Like don’t

listen. So I know that you you take mentorship very

seriously, in what you do, what is the role of having mentors, or at least being able to build

out a culturally competent community? Yeah, to be able to support you in

Yeah, you know, Nick, that is so important to me. Because when I started out in private practice, I was one of maybe three black therapists in the entire state that was in private practice, and people look back, people look back on me laugh, and they can’t believe it. But again, remember, when I was practicing, it was Delaware. And so they’re just, it was like, maybe, maybe three of us. I mean, one was my mentor, who’s Dr. Alvin Turner, who’s a psychologist, me and maybe one other person who works where we call downstate, which is lower Delaware. And so as I, you know, I kind of became a de facto mentor to other people, because I was the only African American therapist in the area for a long time. But I take that role very, very seriously. Because one, I feel like as black people, black therapists, black professionals, we have a responsibility to our community. And that is to be reputable. That is to always operate with integrity, and that is to provide them with the best service that they could experience. And so I, I pound that into people that I mentor about the importance of us, showing up in our communities, representing not being afraid to use our voices to speak out against racism and injustice is because I’m a social worker. So I’m a therapist, but I’m also an activist and advocate. Okay, so I have to use my boys, my platform, my authority as a social worker, in a small community to say, This Is it right? And to advocate for people who look like you and I. And so when I, when I mentor people, that’s my soapbox, is that you got to show up, you got to be reputable. You got to have integrity, you got to do things the right way. And you have to represent the best person professionalism that you can offer to our people, because we deserve it. We deserve it. And when I hear stories of people of color, black people not being treated well by other professionals, it sends me soaring. So that’s, you know, that’s my whole shtick when I mentoring other professionals is really about how we carry ourselves our professionalism and how we treat the clients that we work with. I know some black therapists who don’t want to work with black people. And that just always, shocks me. It just amazes me. And that’s, that’s troubling to me. But Mike, go ahead.

So a little story about me. So when I, when I first decided that I was going to go to therapy, I made the decision that I didn’t want to go to a black therapist. Interesting.

Yes, I had gone to listeners of the show property. Now I’ve gone to therapy three times times in my life. The first time was when I was pregnant with my son, and me and his dad would not get along. Okay. And I was I was having a high risk pregnancy. And on top of that, I had this old little white woman, perfect. She was she was what she was. And she got me through the birth, which was what my job was. And then after that, I stopped going. The second time I was a victim of a crime. I went to a white woman, young girl who now being that I’m in the field, I figure she probably was an intern. Oh, yeah. Cuz I told her something traumatic. Yeah, it wasn’t traumatic. To me. It was just family history.

And she started to cry.


And I think I’m

not going back anymore.

And then the third time was when I was like, I’m depressed and I need some help. You know, I’m talking to the people around me and everybody around me is like, this is not mine that that time I intentionally went to therapy. And I did not want to go to anyone black. Because I felt that black people were so used to suffering.

I didn’t want anybody that was gonna buy with my shoes.

I didn’t want anybody that was going to minimize what I was feeling. Yeah. And ideally, I wanted a black a white man.

Because I wanted somebody who was super entitled, every single thing that he wanted out of life. And that was what was missing for me. And I wanted somebody to teach me that. Wow. Wow. And so what ended up happening, I went to my doctor, and I told her I like bawling and crying. It was so bad. My family doctor have been going too far. 20 years ago, she gave me an antidepressant. Wow. Because she was like, you know, now I like I said, Now that I’m going to feel that getting out. She She just wanted to stop me from crying, huh? Yeah. But in my mind, I was like, you know, I took it for a few days. And but my system, I can’t take anything that doesn’t make everything makes me nauseous. So I had a lot of energy. It was like, I was drinking coffee. And I’m not a coffee drinker.


it was making me sick. So that come down was like something I couldn’t deal. Yeah. She gave me a referral to a therapist. Let me go to this therapist first and see, this medication is even necessary, because I love my doctor when she is she know, she’s not not great. You know sake. Right. Right. Right.


What ended up happening was she sent me to this little Jewish guy

who was an only a great therapist. He grew up in the project. Oh my gosh, yeah.


And he was perfect for me, because I didn’t have to explain the black stuff. I didn’t have to explain the poverty. I didn’t have to, to explain, you know, growing up in the inner city, because he had that down pat. And I didn’t have to explain oppression in the minority structure because he was a minority growing up in the projects as a Jew.

Yep. Yep.

Yep. So I got the best of both worlds. In picking him, I’m not going to get emotional. My therapist is sick right now.

Which is a whole nother thing.

But, um,

when I went to school, and I made the decision that I wanted to be a therapist, I was afraid that people would feel about me the way I felt about black therapists.

And I was like, Oh, my God, what if they were don’t want to?

I didn’t want to go to. Right. Right. And it wasn’t that I didn’t think that black people could do the work. It was just that I wanted a whole brand new way of thinking. Yeah, that I didn’t want to come to somebody who over identified with me culturally, I just wanted something brand new.

Yeah. Wow. That’s interesting. So what I found nothing ever seen me see, I’ve never seen a white bear because I had two black therapist before. But I sent a friend of mine, African American male to a therapist, white harpist. And what I found happened was that she was so overtaken with his charm, his good looks and his intelligence, that she see these issues. And those kind of an eye opener to me, because she was like, so well spoken. But you know, you’re attractive man. And you know, you’re really smart. And he’s going, but I’m depressed. I’m sad. I’m, you know, I’m not happy with myself. She could not get beyond all the other things that I think we’re maybe subconsciously surprising to her. And so consequently, she never went back to a therapist, because he felt like he

didn’t see she didn’t see her legs.

Exactly. So it’s just interesting, you know, how we we kind of make those decisions. about who to say I mean, the key is, I think, for any of us is to find somebody who we can relate to, and we feel like relates to us, like you said about the older Jewish guy. He he understood the things that he that you bringing to the therapeutic room, he got it, he understood it. But sometimes it’s missed. And if I would have the opportunity to go back to that white here and say, Listen, you missed it, you did not see him, I would have probably should have, because it wasn’t intentional on her part. But it’s those micro aggressions that we deal with and as people of color, when we go to therapy sometimes and it’s not, it’s not. Again, I don’t think it was intentional on her part. I just feel like it was strong bias is coming through, which is therapists, we have to constantly check.

Yeah, they don’t like it. No, they don’t like you. I worked for an organization that was very, very good. Actually, it was a school based organization that’s very popular here in New York City. I won’t say their name. But I love I love my supervisor, she was amazing. And the organization for the most part was amazing. So we used to have these trainings in the summertime, because as you know, kids are not usually in school, right? And it was good. What was great about this is from the top down, we were all social workers. So even our CEO was

okay, but

they weren’t in field. I’m not sure if they were still training. I’m not even sure if he was even licensed at this point, right. But the great part about them is that we, the, those of us in the field would come back into the office and train the upper staff. Okay. So this is one day where we were having a training about culturally competence for cultural competence for the LGBT q community. And, like, I was posting stuff on, on Instagrams, like, you know, signs because we had signs, talking about angels in science, because we really just like talking about talking to kids. You know, we usually work in high schools, but don’t age appropriately to kids about sexual

identity, right. And even behavior. Yeah.

And so we were having this conversation, and one of the white staff staffers, I’m not sure she, she actually, she was a social worker.

She made a comparison between being black and being gay. I knew you were gonna say, wow.

And so of course, the black therapist,

she raised her hand. Yeah.

And I said, My apologies. I know, but we’re in a cultural competence training. Yeah. And it’s not the same. Yep. You cannot. I know that. It feels the same to people who don’t know that. It’s not the same. Yeah. But I cannot pretend to be white. Yep. Yeah, I cannot pretend to be anything other than a black. How you see me? I’m absolutely man. There are plenty people in society that we don’t know are gay that we don’t know are struggling with sexual identity issues that we don’t know, are dealing with, you know, that they’re the other Yep. They’re not gender non conforming binary. Like they’re struggling with these issues. We just don’t know. There’s no way you can not know that. I’m a black. Got it. And that shows up in every single space. And she was like, you’re wrong. Oh, oh, shit, another challenging. She’s, and she was a supervisor. And I was like, scary. Scary.

Scary, huh?

Wow. But what I loved about the organization is I went to lunch with the other three black therapists that worked for the organization. And one of my good friends who, you know, she identifies as queer, who went to lunch and they were like, unbelievable. I cannot believe that she did this, whatever we were like decompressing. And I came back from lunch. And my supervisor called me upstairs. We trained downstairs, she called me upstairs to the offices. I was like, oh, what the hell did I get upstairs? And she said to me, we spoke to the woman.

And she’s going to apologize to you.


Okay. We want to know if you will accept our like, on behalf of the organization, our apology. Wow. And

if you will accept your apology. And I was like, to me.

Wow, she came back to me. And she was like, you know, they spoke to me. And they talked to me about my privilege. And then, you know, I understand that as a black woman, you are the sorry, in this issue.

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And

I apologize. Wow. I was like, I’m gonna work here for

because we do they do? Yeah, exactly. Yep. You got it. That’s impressive. Did

it work there forever. But what ended up happening was my own. My supervisor, the one that came back to me was like, she’s gonna apologize, she was wrong. And another co worker of mine was a woman of color. What they do now is they do restorative trainings for people have, I mean, to teach corporations how to be culturally diverse. Oh, wow, how to deal with these kinds of issues. And I was like, y’all go, yeah, okay, do this work? Yes, it is so necessary. And coming from an environment like that, and then coming from an ultra white environment. In Queens, chomp, chomp. Huge there was there was a side bigger than me in for Trump. When he first first ran, and dealing with all of the racial issues in that office and having other black clients tell me they don’t want to work with a black clinician and tell them white people come to me and say that they don’t like white people in there. And then having co workers who were not culturally competent or responsive, or even caring. I was like, I gotta get out of it. Oh,

absolutely. Yep. Yep.

And yeah, I know, the challenge of dealing with micro aggression. Yeah. Yeah. BS in the field. And then they end like, the whole time I worked there. We had no cultural responsive training. And the one training that we did have was the day after election.


Wow. And I worked in that office. And I was like, I don’t want to look at your other day. I’m sorry.

I’m not doing my people right now.

Exactly. Exactly. And

thank God they were like, okay, we get right. To that whole entire office all the white women they were like, I’m fucking believe.

That’s funny.

Wow. But um, I brought you on initially to talk about how to foster and build resilience in children. But then an incident happened this week, and I want to get your take about how do you feel about spankings

and beatings of our babies.

This is always a hot topic, because

yeah, I have one too. I believe that spankings and beating our kids only further traumatizes them. I’m adamant against any type of physical discipline of children. I’m adamant against it. Because I feel like it’s it’s violence. And and people always say to me when I express my opinion about it, is that then, you know, how do you discipline your kids. But I’m a firm believer that we can discipline our kids without inflicting violence on them.

I was spanked as a kid, not often, my parents spanked me.

I’m trying to remember one distinct spanking that I got from my dad. What hurt me more than the spanking was that I had disappointed him. I was just so so hurt by that. But, you know, so I did. I did grow up with parents who stayed and used, you know, spanking as a form of discipline and in that, and I wasn’t a bad kid. And so I didn’t get spanked that often. My brother did. My older brother was spanked very badly. And when I remember the spankings, it’s traumatizing to me. Because he, you know, he was extremely rebel, rebellious child.

But when it was beating him all the time, yeah.

Yeah. People don’t see that causal relationship between Yeah, exactly. That.

Yes. And so he was rebelling, because that was the way he had control. So, and again, when I think back on it, I’m traumatized by it, because that was not pleasant. to witness. Even if as a child, you didn’t understand really what was going on. It was not pleasant to witness. And so I don’t know that that shaped how I feel but as a child therapist and knowing, especially children in some communities where they are traumatized by other things. I feel like the last thing they needed to have further trauma ization in their own homes. My parents was thinking that

Oh, you you you touched on something

that I never even thought about before. I was spanked a lot.

I wasn’t bad.

I was rebellious. Wow. I was inquisitive. I was smart. So you wouldn’t go Just tell me any old thing.

Huh? But Mm hmm.

As an adult, yep. And as a parent who spanked because I did spank in the beginning. I realized that a lot of what I was getting spanked for our setup. For example, I remember one summer, getting spanked every single day felt like to me forget going outside. After they sent me outside to play

dirty, right? Right.

How the hell you gonna send me outside to play? But you don’t want me dude. Wow. So I will just go play it deal with the beat. And when I came in, I was like, I’m gonna play now. Just outside.

Yep. Yep.

So that’ll make no sense. That was just literally me doing age.

Of course.

But yes. So that’s number one. And number number two, the thing that I like when you told me about your brother, I realized my sister. She didn’t get beat that often.

But my sister didn’t cry when you hit it.

Wow. I remember my sister

just not crying like I’m not nothing.


And my sister is probably one of the meanest people I know. Well, yeah,

yeah. Yeah. She’s given almost. There’s three of us. She’s given everybody in the family black.

Like literally given Jesus. And she is so shut down from her.

Wow. I feel like an adult. I won’t say it’s because she got beat.

But I can say I understand. Yeah, it is because

yeah, I get it, Nick. I do.

Because she did not cry. She wasn’t giving you nothing.

And I would watch her because usually she she got beat up too, because we probably.

But I remember watching her like in amazement, like out because I was crying.

I was crying but she was born, of course.

Wow. But as it as a as a clinician in the field. And as a parent, I often told this story that never really sometimes it lands, but sometimes it and this week, I’m the reason I’m bringing it up now, although because I’m speaking to the authority on children. But the reason that I’m bringing it up is because there was a post on Facebook have a child having a meltdown in the store and a mama walking away from it. black child, and I have a friend who I love I met in Paris. He posted it and he was like, Oh, I see you beat him professional, smart, intelligent. mandated reporter means that I have spanked them. And I was like we number one. We don’t know if that child has any locations from watching radio. Great. Number two. I think the parents did an excellent job because all she did was literally ignore this child and walk away. Number three, we are watching it because somebody filmed it. That means if she would have beat that child, somebody? Yep.


Got it. And number four, you want this black woman to put this black child and in this black child.

Yeah, make no sense to you.

Cuz that’s what what happened? Absolutely.

Wow. So as a young mother, who watched my sister with her three children and watched my mother with her three children aspect. Mm hmm. And what I realized was shout out to his godmother for being a CPS worker. Hmm. So they were right, that kept me right. But you know, she was there me and we were Sydney. spank him. She wasn’t gonna take him away. Right. But, but when he got five, I remember having a conversation with him. And I was listening to something on the radio and I asked him, he’s extremely he is extremely bright, but he was always extremely bright.

Extra verbal at, you know, before he was one

mimicking sounds at like six months. Yeah, he said, I love you.

Wow, yeah.

And he’s always excelled in schools extremely intelligent, but I five I remember shaky taking home from school. And asking him if you could make me a better mother. What? What would that look like? Wow. And he said, You spanked me?

Too much. Oh, wow. Oh, my God. And

I said those is all facts. You’re actually factually correct. Yes.


So I said, You know what, a row you control. Stupid is such a parity thing to say now that you control whether or not I spanked you. And if I yell, thank you control me. Yeah.

You can’t control yourself. Yeah. As a you control

the reactions to what it is I do, but I’m gonna. As of this day, I promise you if you can stop doing the things that make me scream and yell and spank, I’m going to stop. Oh, wow. He said do so what I did was I went home and I got a, I got on board, a whiteboard. And I wrote all of the things that he did that just like pissed me off to the highest heights. leaving his shoes in the middle of the floor spilling stuff I say he didn’t

you know, leaving his Tonka trucks.

Like, putting his book in a book bag in the middle, like all the things that he would do not clean up his room. So I will all the things that really just made me mad, I put it up on a roll. And on top of that, I put punishments are the consequences of my actions. So as I got to punish him in some sort of way, he had a rule in my house, we do that you come home from school, you do your homework first. If you took you all day, today on work that he wasn’t crazy, so sometimes we were down to like, and he was in advanced classes. So some days he was down to like, maybe an hour, 40 minutes to TV.


So what I did was for each infraction, I took away 10 minutes of

it, he had to go to

what I learned from that, was that

a lot of the things that I was responding to, were age appropriate. Yeah.

And he’s five, and he doesn’t have

10 not be permanent stuff.

exactly what I was thinking, and he was telling me, I was like, Oh,


I don’t, I don’t notice.

You know, you go get your own juice. And then you know, this juice Three days later.

But this is what my mother did to me, and it didn’t write it. So that’s the first thing I realized. The second thing I realized, because I had to control the yelling, which I still never know. Because I had to control the yelling. It allowed me to remove myself from the situation First,

find a rationale for why I was

rushing you. explain to you your actions in a calm manner.

And have a dialogue to learn to calm the hell down.

Yes, ma’am. Absolutely. And listen to

number three, I learned that


Okay, I learned


punishments didn’t need to be punitive. My job was to

go You nailed it.

He wasn’t doing stuff just to challenge authority. Yep. Yep. And I should not be beating him out of my own.

You just said a whole word. You said a whole entire word. Yep. You got it. Wow.

So once I did that, I was like, oh,


like bees don’t like you. Your whole job

is to correct. Things don’t change behavior. It makes kids resentful.

Yep. They don’t change behavior. So

unless they are doing something that is a safety issue, because like I said, I will still spend you.

I’m not I’m, why are you doing this? Like I had to, I had to spank my nephew.

You know, not that long ago. But he way bigger than me now.

But he’s like, strong as an ox. And he was hanging on. And he was like, it’s me and my son to restrict.

Wow. Wow. Wow.

And we were only doing it because he was a seed. Yeah,

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

But if it’s not an extreme case of something like that, like YUB these children?

Wow. I mean, I get emotional about it too, because

in some circles, travels from what I have the pushback that I get, and I take it because I feel justified in my position. But the pushback that I get and thinking about family members who still believe in thinking it is it’s painful, it is painful? because like you said, What people don’t understand is that, that the whole purpose of state of disciplining a kid is to teach a lesson. And spanking just doesn’t teach a lesson. It doesn’t. So it’s really ineffective. And it just, you know, we have to be creative with our kids. Yes, they can push and pluck our last nerve. You have to be creative in how we go about teaching the lesson, so that we don’t do any further harm to them. And that really is I think, the key remember, for people who are listening is that we don’t want to do harm to a kid. And in most instances, spanking does does harm a kid, but not a psychological or physical goals. It hurts a kid. And like I said, I was spanked as a child. But my most traumatic memories were my brother being spanked. I mean, that was that was very unpleasant to watch. Be really with it with the belt. That was that was not pleasant at all. So you know, here I am a full grown adult, but I look back on that go. Oh, wow.


lessons learned, and hopefully people will have open mind that there are other ways to teach kids lessons rather than clicking through the call. Pain on them.

But you know what, the funny thing Funny thing is, is the thing that most people say when you tell them not spank a spirit. Child. Yep. Yep. And number one, a ride is


And if you know about cheaper, which must be by my family.

The rod is to

see you back from death, sir. Yes.

It is used to.

It is not used. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

And the funny thing about that is the person that told me that was my mom allows

the contradictions.


So I wanted to talk to you about how to foster resilience in children. I know from my studies, and in preparing for this show, I was thinking about my own upbringing and teachers and mentors who have fostered resilience in me growing up and bedtime, when when the old man which was, which was All black, everything, we have blab but minister I black teachers at that principles, you know, black city council man, like I knew everybody in the neighborhood. And so having coming from a community like that, and then moving to Alexandria, Virginia, where there was black, black breaking, really. I did have a teacher there who was from Brooklyn, New York, shout out to miss Ferris. Hello, she’s still alive, who had my whole life planned for me. And she was literally the only person in my life who was like, you’re gonna go to college?

You see, I was smart. You’re gonna make it.

Yay. So, you know, having dealt with a lot of trauma growing up that I didn’t know, was trauma, and being exposed to a lot of things that I wasn’t,

shouldn’t have.

And that could have gone against me. Yep. In how that turned out? Yeah. Right. Can you explain to people how foster resilience and

show so my thinking and feeling about that is that kids are not naturally resilient. And we shouldn’t expect them to be to be able to just bounce back, because as adults, we can’t do that. So the way that we foster resilience in children is one nurturing, emotional nurturing, providing them with safety. And that, we know that bad things happen in this world, right? We can’t escape it. We can’t protect our kids from all bad things. But when a child is exposed to trauma, or something negative, is to be nurturing to that child, and reassuring to that child. So those are really important things that because when kids don’t feel safe in the world, it creates anxiety and a feeling of, you know, not of not being safe, right. So making sure that when a child has experienced something that has been negative in their lives is to is to nurture them, but also teaching kids survival skills, about how to make good decisions, how to trust their intuition. So that helps kids as they grow up, because they’re being taught skills, Bible to be able to deal with and manage things that are inevitable that are going to happen in life, because life happens, the bad things happen. And so it’s not a very difficult concept. But it is something that we have to be mindful of that when our kids are exposed to trauma or unexpected stress is that we’re comforting, nurturing, and we teach them the skills that they need in order to be able to survive. And unfortunately, on that note, I’m going to have to go because I have to go to a football game for my step son, who’s playing today and for his college.

One last question, what does it mean to be a black therapist to you,

it’s an honor to be a black therapist. It’s an honor to be a healer, and to be seen as trusted, professional in our communities, who can help people to grow and to and to learn. You know, the whole spanking thing is really about teaching people and helping people to see that there’s other alternatives in their lives.

Okay, well, thank you for coming. Talking about this. I feel like

everybody’s like Oh, you’re gonna be my mentor.

Thank you for having me what tell the people how they can find you can

go to my website, the Center for child development.com or if your clinician they can find my Facebook page by just searching for criticism color, and yes, so that’s how they can find me.


so once again, thank you guys for listening. I want to also thank our guests Lisa Savage, for coming onto the show today to talk about how to provide mental health interventions to your children. Yeah, thank you for listening to this week’s episodes guys be well thank you guys for listening to another episode of black bear podcast once again you can follow us on all our social media sites at

Black Bear podcast on Twitter Graham and on Twitter as well as black in therapy on Facebook or you can follow your host me Miss MS in IK I think on Instagram and Twitter as well as you can find out any information about me at Nikita and IKITA Banks calm and on the show’s website, laugh therapists podcast calm and don’t forget if you want to send us any general feedback show suggestions show topic for guest ideas please feel free to drop us an email at Black therapist podcast at gmail. com Thank you be well

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