Black Therapist Podcast Season four premiere with Dontea Mitchell Hunter

Season 4 Premiere Featuring Dontea’ Mitchell Hunter

In this episode of Black Therapist Podcast season premiere we unveil our new segment “What would you do?” would you rekindle a friendship after a betrayal.

We also interview Dontea’ MItchell Hunter, LMFT. Working with families as a family and marriage therapist.

Transcript:

0:01
Hey guys,

0:03
welcome back, ah, another season of black bear Podcast. I am once again your host, Nikita banks. And I am excited to be back. I hope you’re excited. So listen, first of all shout out to everybody who DM to me and was like, yeah, summer vacation is over, we need new stuff. Because I appreciate like the reciprocal conversations that we have on social media. If you are not following us on my Instagram platforms, you can do so at MS in IKI. Banks point for a minute on Instagram, as well as black therapist podcast on Instagram as well. We listened to all of the comments, the nice ones, and even the not so nice one. Speaking of that shout out to the young lady that told me that I talked too much in the beginning of the shows. That’s not a news flash. My mother’s been hearing that ever since I was in second grade.

0:58
And I get paid to talk now.

1:02
But I’m going to try to keep these church announcements down to like 10 minutes, okay. And I’m only going to do 10 minutes, because number one, we have a really good show. coming today we have Dante Mitchell Hunter, she is a LMFT. And she is based out of Atlanta, Georgia. And I believe Washington. And I just kind of want to catch you up on all of the things that we’ve done on

1:29
our break. Right.

1:30
So first things first, if you are a therapist, or a mental health advocate, and you’ve been seeing out therapy for the culture, t shirts, or a hood heel, a T shirt, or a hood, hello hoodies, or our God for the for masagos for the culture, God and therapy, t shirts and bags, I launched a website. Now if you listen, last season, every day, I kept saying, oh, the website will be up the website will be up. Now, a lot of people don’t know this about me. But I am really good at social media marketing, do some our graphic stuff, and I do all of our websites. But last year, I felt like I was doing too much like I was team too much last year. And so I hired someone to build the website and I build websites. And because I build websites, I assume that building an e commerce site is like building a regular site. And for me building websites as long as like the structure is there at the door them up. Especially I build sites in WordPress, I can build them up maybe in like a day or two or three, like Max, if everything is there, it’s done in a week. Well, I assumed that an e commerce site in 2019 would be the same. I’ve never built an e commerce site. So

2:43
the person that I hired to do it was she did amazing job.

2:48
But she was struggling to do certain things. And I didn’t appreciate how much work it was going to take to do it until

2:56
I did it.

2:58
So

3:00
I had her she started out she started doing it and then I had to go in and scrap everything that she did. And we did we do it so the site is up. That’s all of that to say the site is up now. And if you want to purchase our T shirts, our bags are hoodies, you can go on over there and you could grab you something, okay. And we’d appreciate it because everything here that you see I do. And I would like to be able to hire other people to do some of the things that I do. And you know, buying a hoodie or a T shirt and hopefully soon a mug will keep me in. I’m you just just be keeping my sanity, you help my sanity along and I would appreciate that. Okay, so by a hoodie or something as part of my my self care, if you care about me at all.

3:47
I noticed not why you’re here.

3:49
Okay. So that’s one of the things that we did, we got the e commerce site up, I redesigned my website and for you therapists that are out there, and you’re listening to the sound of my voice, I made it my website, y’all. Now, it makes it a lot easier for me to send out emails, my emails are automated, my schedule is automated, my reminders are automated. It I was doing all of this stuff by myself like a fool. And so my own therapist, I told him in therapy, I’m like, I don’t even know how you still do this with a pen and a paper because I tried it and I can’t I couldn’t do it. So now my clients are able to schedule reschedule, pay their premiums, though, whatever it is that they have to pay, co pays, deposit all of that stuff, cancellation fees, all of that online, and I don’t have to be bothered, all that you have to do is press the button and remind them it is a game changer. Later on in the season, we will definitely be talking about all of the things you need to do in your website, all the things that you need to do it to have in your therapy website so that you will can spend more time in your business, you can be a lot more effective with your clients, you can have a lot more time for self care and some downtime in between and start automating some of these processes. And I cannot wait for that show. We scheduled a guy that does a lot of the web development for therapists. And you know, we have a joint project coming up. So I can’t wait for you guys. To learn more about that. If you’re interested in that, specifically, please send me an email or join our mailing list. Okay, and if you follow us on Instagram, all of the links to everything that I’m saying is in the bio, our healthy relationship for boss chicks course is also there that is free, our free mental wellness course. What is it? What’s it called? Get mentally fit is there if you’re curious about therapy, if you want to go if you’re curious about what’s asked therapist how to find a free therapist and low cost therapists and how to support your friends who have mental health issues. That is there,

6:06
okay, about this episode.

6:08
So me and Dante Oh, we had this conversation. I’ve never met her. But I’m telling you this show. It’s funny. And it’s literally like we were like old friends, kindred spirits. And so I hope you really enjoy this episode of The Black therapist podcast, and I hope you enjoy the upcoming season. One thing that I want to say if you are a therapist, or mental health advocate, and you join our mailing list, or if you haven’t joined our mailing list, make sure that you do over the next few weeks, we’re going to be doing a lot of free trainings, and a lot of low cost trainings, because I’m building content up for what we’re going to launch next. And so I’m really excited about where we are going as a company I’m really excited about where I want to take therapy for the culture of people of color, and therapists who serve them. I do all of these things, every single thing that you see from growing my Instagram from, you know, scheduling my my content to following people to talk to you guys to dm in you to all of the graphics, the web development, all of those things, my own marketing platforms, scheduling my sites, all of that stuff, I do myself. And so I want to be able to help therapists who are tech friendly to not so tech savvy to help them do the things that they need to do efficiently and effectively to market their businesses. So that’s one of the things that I want to do. And if you are somebody who who’s just a mental health advocate, and you’re looking to incorporate a lot more or better mental health habits in your own life, please make sure that you reach out to us because I’m a resource for you as well, we got a lot of things that we’re developing for people of color, who may not be in an environment where there are therapists in their areas that they love, what they what’s in the areas that they like a therapist in their area that they’re exposed to, to help them create low cost mental wellness routines.

8:09
Okay.

8:10
And another thing I want to say, if you are in the states of New York, New Jersey, Florida and Atlanta, I still have some open sessions open for both virtual sessions and coaching sessions. Okay, and not everybody is a good fit for virtual sessions. And I’ll I’ll say YI,

8:34
there’s some people out here

8:35
who have

8:37
more serious mental health issues, and they need to have in state support. If that is you, and you have a severe mental health diagnosis, I’m willing to work with you in finding a local provider for you, and that wouldn’t cost you anything. But if it’s somebody who has life issues, to some diagnosis, I have to kind of see if we are a good fit in order to work with with that. And if you want to use your insurance, I also have to kind of screen you for that if you are interested in getting screened for working with me as a therapist in the state of New York, New Jersey and Florida and Georgia, please feel free to contact me. Okay at Nikita banks.com.

9:19
Okay, so

9:20
I also wanted to let you guys know that we have a new series coming and I don’t know, just let me know if you like it. So our series is what would you do in this week? The advice that I will ask you guys to give me will be me Why? Like problem. And I kind of just wanted to,

9:43
you know, see what you guys think about it. How are we going to do this? If I keep this segment, right, how we’re going to do this is I’m going to ask you on the show, I’m going to tell you a scenario, it may be real, it may be imagined, it may be something I got off the net, it may be something that happened on TV, but I’m ask you a scenario. And I’m going to see how you guys think it should be handled? What would you do if you were in that situation? And then on the next week, I’m going to let you know what I think you should do, or I should do what should be done about the situation and my professional opinion. let y’all know. I’m a human and sometimes my my professional opinion is colored by my my little ghetto girl disposition. Okay, I give you advice and talk my Brooklyn be rising. So we’re going to go into that segment right through and then we’re going to get into the interview with Dante, Mitchell Hunter. Okay.

10:47
So I want to apologize in

10:48
advance for this audio, I was like driving around the city

10:53
recording. And it’s

10:55
not how I usually record the show, okay, but as kind of want to just preface that, but this segment is not very long, because it’s kind of want to get it out and get into today’s episode. Okay, so here it is.

11:19
To discuss on the show, which is

11:23
what do you do? Or how do you decide is

11:28
not a friendship. Okay, so

11:34
I have a girlfriend, she’s my friend. She is she and I had a mutual friend. I know. And I’m perfectly cool.

11:46
She does it.

11:51
And again,

11:53
our friendship with the girls

11:57
had nothing to do with me. That

12:08
is my girlfriend saw this person who used to be a mutual friend. And she came to me and was like, hey, the girl, you know, I saw her and she started to say complimentary things about the girl. And then in in the beginning the conversation I indulged

12:23
in it. It wasn’t like,

12:26
it was a performance information just like Oh, she looks nice

12:29
or whatever,

12:31
you know, things are going well in her life. And I said, Okay, you know,

12:34
great. But then I thought about it. Like after the conversation started going on a little bit. I was like, Damn, you know what, not for nothing. I really don’t care about this person, Shana friends anymore. And I don’t really want to indulge in a conversation without like, not

12:46
like,

12:48
I want her dead. Right? I mean, you know, I think my literal comment was like, I’m glad that she’s not on crack. But I really don’t give a shit about this girl.

12:56
I don’t want to talk about her.

12:58
So we were in the

13:01
process of changing the subject. However, before we could change the subject to things of no app, and in the conversation number one, my home girl was like, Hey, why

13:13
don’t you guys speak anymore? Like what knows? The little question she asked me was like, Wow, she liked you. And I thought that that was an odd question. And I want to come back to that in a minute minutes. We don’t put a pin in that. The second thing she

13:28
she said was what the girl

13:30
had expressed an interest in rekindling the friendship with my friend. Not with me, with my friend who but who she was speaking. And

13:42
she, she told me that she replied to the girl, Time heals all wounds.

13:49
So which I said, a time may

13:53
heal all wounds?

13:55
But what about character?

13:58
Okay, so I,

14:02
to answer the first question, what I didn’t like about that question was that it implied that I had done something to this person for her not to like me. Number one, people don’t need a reason to not like people, they can just choose who they want to engage in who they don’t want to engage in. I feel like that situation, that friendship, that situation, it kind of ran its its course, that’s a friendship that I had in my teens. Number one is she had in her teens. Number two, and we really were just friends. Because the proximity, it wasn’t like, we love each other. It really wasn’t a friendship, like we love each other. You know, we have so so much in common.

14:43
I mean, at the time, when we were teenagers, we really did have a lot in common. But we’re both grown women right now. And I don’t really feel like at this stage of where I am in my life and what I’m doing in my life, she has

14:57
a large place in it. So I do well, I don’t wish any bad.

15:02
I don’t want to buy a car or anything. I don’t really feel like,

15:07
for me, there’s anything that I’m losing by not having that friendship. And to be honest, I am judging by my 19 year old self, I’m judging by her, you know, 1718 year old self, I haven’t been in friends a friendship with this person over 10 years. And probably more than that, my son is 2122. So he’s 21. But he’ll be 22. So I,

15:33
you know, I

15:34
haven’t been in this friendship for at least 20 years. Right now, the other friendship I’ve been in

15:41
that friendship for over 20 years. So and at

15:45
this point, me and the friend who had this conversation about the friend that she and I have been friends, I maintained our friendship a lot longer than the friendship that she’s maintaining with that other friend, right? We’ve gone through real things together, like really, truly love to support each other. Within a within those time period, we raised our children and stuff, you know, pretty much together.

16:09
So there’s that right. But yeah, I found it odd that she would ask me why this person wasn’t my friend.

16:20
And the simple answer to that is that we all kind of split friendships. And in the end, it’s friendship divorce, some people get some people and some people get others, I ended up with this friend, this friend ended up being friends with somebody else I’m no longer friends with. So it was just

16:36
kind of like we just like, divided friends, I got who I got, she got she got and it was nothing. It

16:41
wasn’t like she did me she did anything

16:45
wrong to me or anything. However, when we were friends

16:50
after agreed, because she tried to cut my throat. Not literally as to say, but she tried to cut my throat about a guy I had been dating, like she bought, she

17:01
tried to violate me with the dude that I was seeing. Now really care that much about guys. I don’t and I don’t care

17:10
at all about this guy. I do care that a friend of mine will try to go behind my back and try to you know,

17:19
again, Sony way back, I think about like, some real comfortable stuff

17:25
that she did or attempted to do to me. But instead of it being a secret, the duel came and told me so I was like all word. That’s how my friend carried it. Like she tried to sleep with you, even though

17:36
you and I are like kind of see each other.

17:39
And not only did she tell me, but multiple people can I mean, he never she never mentioned it to me. And I never even mentioned it to her. But the fact that she did it, I was like, yo, you know what it is what it is? That’s number one. Number two, I had already looked at the person like, even when she and I were friends. She was sleep with anybody man

18:02
who was around. So I was like, I thought maybe, maybe she won’t do it to me. Because we’re really, really good friends.

18:13
But when I started to see how she was trying to do it with other people, I was like,

18:18
yeah, she’ll do it for me, too. So to me, it was a character

18:21
issue.

18:24
Playing a simple, like, it wasn’t I could not not that

18:27
she wasn’t a good person. Not that she was like, I know that if it came between me and a man, she would choose the man anytime, any day, any anytime, anyplace anywhere. And so I knew that that was something I really wanted to engage. And so we

18:42
kind of lost touch,

18:43
because we didn’t have a falling out was an argument. I didn’t argue her about Dude, I don’t care

18:47
about do. It didn’t even matter. It just was kind of like,

18:49
Oh, this is how you get down for me. Once I noticed that. I was like, yeah, I’m good.

18:57
And when that when the friendship fell by the wayside, I was like, I didn’t mean I wasn’t still cordial didn’t mean I wasn’t nothing, but I just did what she was

19:06
that fast forward. So my girlfriend came to me, she was like, Hey, I’m thinking about,

19:13
you know, being friends with her again. And I was like, What? You know?

19:20
What would make you feel like that would be advantageous for you. Like if you became her friend right now, what would what would you be gaining from this friendship.

19:33
And the reason that they stopped speaking is because they weren’t friends anymore. What they they will kind of friends or I don’t really understand the story. They were friends or they weren’t friends. And that girl tried to hook

19:47
another girl up with her man. And she had to sleep with a man.

19:54
And of course, the man is the man. So he came back and told his woman that this is what happened. I don’t know, he probably told half a story because that’s what men do. But I, as a friend, when she finally told me why they

20:07
weren’t friends. I was like,

20:09
you shouldn’t possibly can’t possibly be

20:13
surprised, because you knew what she did to me and everybody else. But maybe it was thinking like me that she wouldn’t do it to you.

20:21
So here’s my question to you guys.

20:25
Have you ever been

20:26
violated, betrayed, hurt, had a woman try to cut your deal with the man and we can do that friendship? Like, how do you get

20:33
past

20:34
that situation? And do you feel like that’s a friendship worth saving?

20:41
Because I’m gonna have to have a conversation with my girlfriend about whether or not she’s going to rekindle this friendship, not just so much. Because I feel like it affects me, I don’t really feel like it affects me except for the fact that I really don’t want to, at this stage of my life be exposed to somebody who’s still doing the stuff that

21:00
tone girl was doing.

21:02
number one. And number two, I don’t think that this is an issue about behavior. I think this is a character issue. And I still have the same feeling like if I’m around and I’m chilling, and you know, I’m around her, and for whatever reason, we’re around.

21:17
I go to my friend’s birthday party, for example. And then I bring my man and then the girl is there do I got to worry about like, taking my man with me to the restroom.

21:29
and stuff like that. I mean, that’s not a real where we have my but for me, I really feel like this is not

21:34
so much of a incident issue. I think this is a character issue.

21:42
And why I literally have no ill will towards this woman that

21:46
that don’t, I’m indifferent about her.

21:49
I just don’t

21:51
know if I feel like

21:55
anticipate anticipating the level of chaos that she could potentially bring to the friendship that I now

22:01
have with my girlfriend that has

22:03
none.

22:04
And furthermore, I really

22:06
have a problem with like us as women signing up for situations with our eyes completely, completely open.

22:15
Excuse me,

22:18
completely open, sign up for situation with our eyes completely open and not taking responsibility for enforcing the peace in our existence.

22:28
That’s just me.

22:30
So my question to you guys is could you re establish a friendship with somebody that either slept with your man trying to sleep with your man or whatever? And,

22:41
you know,

22:41
I guess the second part of that question is, do you think it’s any of my business?

22:46
If my friend

22:47
reignites a friendship with somebody that I don’t particularly care for, like, I don’t hate or

22:53
don’t hate it, but but I don’t know. Do you think it’s any of my business? I really feel like I want to have a conversation with

22:58
my friend about what this friendship looks like. And

23:02
I know me, I don’t have boundaries when it comes to that. I think I’ll be out of a conversation where,

23:07
but I’m wondering if it’s if it’s my place, or if it’s not my place.

23:12
Okay. Alright, so we’re going to talk about this on social media. And you can give me your your responses on social. You can see me you can

23:22
hit me up, however, but that’s that. That’s the question of the day.

23:26
Okay, so we’re going to get into this episode right now. Okay, so Introduce yourself.

23:32
My name is Dante, I’m Michelle Hunter. I am a live in marriage and family therapist. I, my life is in Washington State. I’m from Seattle. My wife is in Georgia right now. Outside of Atlanta.

23:45
Okay. Now, can you explain to the people listening, what the importance is of having a license in different states states, because I think they probably heard me say that I’m licensed to several states. But I know that I’ve never explained it. OYIR.

24:00
Yeah, I forgot about that. So what happened? What happened was I decided I wanted to move back to Atlanta, and I had just gotten my license in the state of Washington. And I didn’t want to just throw that hard work away. So I figured I know there are a lot of black female therapists back home. But I wanted to keep that active just in case I wanted to do just the clients and that they’re just in case I move back or anything, I just felt like it was necessary to keep it active. So that done the work.

24:30
Okay. So for people that don’t know, we were kind of like, lawyers in the way that we have to take the bar in each in each state. But we don’t have to take the test in each state, because the test is National except for California. I don’t know if California came on board yet. In terms of my in terms of my license, but your license is preferred in California. Is that correct?

24:55
Yeah. California MSG rule the world in California, great for me. And no one wants to take another step. Actually, no one wants to do that.

25:09
The LMFT is the test that you take in California.

25:12
So California has an ethic. And they have I believe a child from being around working with children. And I think they’re both so different, because the national one for my credential is the AMSGRV. I don’t know.

25:32
Okay, I’ve never even heard of that.

25:36
So what is your license?

25:39
So being a licensed marriage, family therapist, I think, I mean, everyone has their biases. I love my field, because we are trained systemically. So specifically, me we being a being all connected. So it’s something example, if someone were to walk into my office with they wouldn’t want to because my office, as you know, is online, working with me, and they said, I’m different. I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say, Oh, well, I know, you told me that you and your husband divorced. So you must be depressed as a divorce. So let’s just talk about the important message. That’s not all there is, as we know, we’re feeling depressed or anxious for a lot of things that make up that problem. And so typically, I’m going to look for all the things that are connected to that, that we can explore to help hopefully relieve or like help you manage the problem, and also being trained and they’re certainly therapy. We’re trained in family system. So we look at how families affect how we become a person. Dynamic shift. The generational trauma, like we mentioned before, so we have going on,

26:53
okay, what do you find is the most common challenge people make when they haven’t been the issues.

27:04
For my, the most common usually is, is the person that wants to step outside of the norm, like the unhealthy norm of the family. So that so that may be people might feel like there’s a black sheep, right? Or they haven’t spoken to their mother near because every time they get together a toxic thing. And so usually, it’s when that person wants to challenge maybe, maybe my family keeps secrets. And I’m the one that doesn’t want to keep the secret anymore. I want to share however, everyone so accustomed to that normal for you to go against that kind of like an outsider, you do not know how to how to be around your family and how to be healthy person when you’re around.

27:46
Yeah, I think that, you know, I had a conversation with my old supervisor, and she’s going to come on the show at some point. But she and I were speaking about the difference between shame and guilt. And I thought that it was such a good conversation, because I never thought about those two entities being a different thing. In the way she described, it was guilt is doing an action or being involved in something, and then having remorseful feelings and or feeling of regret around it. And, and shame is when you have those feelings, whether or not you’ve done something or not. And yeah, like I never even thought about it like that, because we were talking about in context, the context of race, she’s a white woman. And she does, she does work around race relations, and creating safe spaces and getting allies. And so we were having this conversation. But I, as you’re talking to me thinking about the common challenges that I find in a lot of family, a lot of those secrets and those behaviors, they do stem from health, shameful feelings, or current shameful feelings. And I think when you’re the one, like in my family, on the squeaky wheel, when you are the squeaky wheel and you’re challenging the status quo, it stirs up those feelings. And it doesn’t have to be something that somebody has actually done, that they should be ashamed of. But it you can still have shame, and not have a connection to the activities that was causing you. Shame. Yeah,

29:30
yeah, absolutely.

29:32
So how do we? How do we successfully navigate the changes that we want to see in our family?

29:46
How can you go about it?

29:50
There are so many, so many different names that people want to challenge the family on, even even though to come come out to the family and we’re anything like that. And it’s really important to have support, it’s really important to have some, someone in that family system that you feel like can support you. If that person is unable to have that support system in the family, going outside of the family to find that support. If that is a mentor is that if you have access to like, counseling or therapy, I think I also think sometimes thing, how do I say, see an example like in the culture of maybe maybe how you want your life to be or seeing, seeing things someone doing what you’re what you’re already doing. So is that if we’re going back to those shame and guilt, because you if you want to do more, do more. Now you don’t want to keep holding on to all these secrets. And you want someone like Bernie brown to feel kind of like the we like, oh, there is someone out there doing that it is okay to want to not feel like

31:01
I can go ahead and do that. Does that make sense?

31:04
Yeah, yeah. But I also think is necessary to have somebody confirm your sanity.

31:14
Because we you are with families. And our families are the most influential people on our development on who we are on our personalities in our lives, period. Right. But when you have, I feel like when you you looking at your family, and you’re you’re almost making a judgment, that the way we operate here is not good enough.

31:42
It makes them feel bad, which in terms make makes them try to make us feel bad for wanting to change the system. And a lot of gaslighting occurs.

31:55
And whether you know, you don’t know what gas is Google, it’s a big thing. President does it all the time. But a lot of a lot of gaslighting occurs. And so you, you will have somebody telling you that you don’t feel what you feel. And you don’t you don’t exist in an environment, where you are reality is a real thing. And it sometimes makes you question

32:19
who you are and what you want. Yeah.

32:25
Yeah. It’s tough. I mean, I’ll use myself as an example. For years. I mean, till this day, my sister get on me about being sensitive. And about that I’m sensitive. It’s just I don’t, I don’t enjoy being superficial all the time. You know, if, in my family with my mother, she didn’t have the skill, she has a now thank goodness, she some the word didn’t have the skills to be like emotionally mature that conversation, having emotional intelligence. And so for me, I wanted to understand things. What I want to talk about is why I understand how that happened. And I want you to know how it made me feel. And for years, years, she was not here for it. She was shut me down, she would get frustrated, like you said, like that will trigger something in her, she’s angry. Now she’s mad at me. And so for a long time to kind of silence myself. And then I started to not really trust my family way. And I started to spend time with other people that allow me to express that. So that was maybe my best friend’s mother’s or things like that. And it literally wasn’t until maybe the end of college, and during grad school, when I started to learn how to, like, have emotional mature conversations, which allow me to bit help my family, little by little when they were willing and open to it.

33:54
Do you feel like your sensitivity was

34:00
positive catalysts for that change in the family? Because I think for me, I have this type of temperament. Even though I have two very different, distinct personalities. In terms of my parents, I believe both of them have personality development issues, I don’t want to call them personality disorders, I don’t want to diagnose them. My father had a diagnosis, though, I’ll just put that out there. But in terms of my mom, she’s never been in therapy before. And I’m not going to be her first therapist. So I’m not going to diagnose her. But I do believe that they both had specific challenges. And because of my temperament, I was able to get what I needed from the both of them. And I was able to communicate to them in a way that allowed me to get the things that I need from them without frustrating myself. And so do you think, you know that sensitivity that you had that? Apparently, you know, according Sisters of the black house? Well, you know, if I’m calling you sensitive, I say you too sensitive, I would assume that it’s more, you know, your level of sensitivity is measured against mine. Yeah.

35:15
So So do you, you know, and that’s not a judgment against you, sisters. But do you? Do you feel like you’re, you know, hypersensitivity, I’ll just say like that respectfully,

35:28
kind of contributed to the the overall well being of the family.

35:37
I will see it that way that my my push against the norm definitely helps to push us to this place that we are in now. I don’t think I’m the sole reason you know why I think change, I think, I think someone has to like, there’s always going to be one person in the system that is going to break that. So I helped to develop that. And then over time. You know, in grad school, I started to learn, like you said, I can’t be your therapist. So then I started to encourage people more, why don’t you go like the counseling, or be a therapist. And also, I, as I matured, I realized that, dang, it must be really stressful for my mom, a black single mom raising, you know, four girls on her own like that.

36:29
Or have more empathy.

36:30
And I didn’t push on all the things, you know, because there’s only she did the best she could, but then understanding the other side of it, too.

36:38
Yeah, I think that’s the key. I think that that’s the empathetic part is really hard for people to do. Because we see our own pain, we get so bogged down by what we feel. And, you know, I’m very blunt, when I speak to my clients about certain things when they’re trying to like hold space for everybody. And I’ll be like, you know what, forget their feelings. Right? Now you can feel your you can you have the autonomy right now in this space to just feel your own feelings. But when it comes to try to make amends, when it comes to having a conversation with other family members, it’s really necessary to empathize with them and see how hard their situation must have been. My mother was a teenage Mom, you know, she had two kids by the time she was 20.

37:28
So I can’t expect

37:30
that she operate at a level of development. Like thinking back now, her brain wasn’t even fully developed, that

37:38
our brains aren’t developed 25. So how could I expect

37:41
this she can do something that she just didn’t have the mental capacity, nor the social training to learn how to do? Yeah.

37:51
Yeah, I think we forget to look at the other person’s perspective.

37:57
That’s a game changer that empathy and validating I do a lot of, I do a lot of work around, validating, and like you’re mentioning like, autonomy, when you weren’t able to just sit in your own truth is very, very powerful.

38:16
Yeah. Yep. And be free of it.

38:19
So what populations are you are your favorites to work with?

38:24
So what would I say like my niche, like my passion, I love working with, I love working with women, women of color, specifically, it’s usually between the ages of 25 to 35, or 40. I love working with that group I the the problem that I love to work with, basically are just women who are having trouble with communicating their needs, like I mentioned, speaking their truth and being authentic self, because so many times, the work that I am doing is in that space of breakup, or in that space of I may be breaking

39:04
up, I don’t know who I am anymore.

39:09
Yeah.

39:11
I’m in a good space in my practice, because almost all of my clients are either engaged or just got married, which is a weird thing.

39:20
For me, but yeah, that relationship piece, the communication piece is definitely something that I see a lot with black women, are there any other specific challenges that you see in your population?

39:37
Like, what I say is, struggle with my societal norms, gender norms, gender roles. So a lot of people feel like I have one client, where we use the character of ecstasy to describe choices of lifestyle. And she said, Well, I want to be carry on. Sometimes I like to be Samantha, and I just feel like, I can’t be mad at them. Because then I’ll ask my numbers or kidneys, NASA, because, you know, people will judge whatever. And I said to her, Well, you know, you can be bold, and you don’t have to choose one, if you want to do something that Samantha wouldn’t do you want to be with us or whatever she was referring to, and can so a lot of my clients, they feel like they have to choose one, path one, one personality, and you don’t have to do that, because that’s where the frustration, anxiety, depression, isolation, all that.

40:36
But that’s an external validation, like a lot of people are making those determinations based on what they think other people want them to do, and who other people want them to be.

40:49
And I help them get in touch with their values, and their core beliefs. So it’s coming from within, like, this is what I want to do for myself, not this. What society thankful my family, for their stuff like that to you know, people who are, like Nigerian culture, and like what family wants to

41:12
align with your own values and your belief.

41:15
Yeah, those are the clients that I like, I feel like I’m like, doing a whole training, what I call it,

41:21
I’m trying to get them to

41:23
get in touch.

41:28
And then I come home all excited, tell my partner my

41:30
cancer, I taught this girl be sexually free today. She’s like,

41:33
oh, he’s like, Oh, my

41:34
God, what the hell? He’s

41:37
like, could you please not do that to the world? But

41:40
I mean, a lot of women are, I don’t think people understand that a lot of black women are still sexually conservative.

41:50
Either, not not always in our activity,

41:53
but a lot of times in, in our minds, and it’s around shameful behavior, and stuff like that. And so I think that that narrative is, is oftentimes perpetuated by men who want to take advantage of us and not having that freedom. That men exercise, you know, definitely before they are married men are single until they are married and sometimes after.

42:21
I’ll be honest,

42:23
yeah.

42:24
So. So yeah, kind of being able to give somebody that the permission to be sexually free and make sexually autonomous decisions. I love her.

42:37
I love those sessions. Yeah,

42:40
yeah, I have one of those clients right now. She’s my own.

42:42
My only single girl and I’m like, come on, girl. We gotta it’s summertime in New York City, summertime in New York City is the best time to be single. Like, there’s so many things to do. So I gave her like a list of things to do. We got a game plan, like I’m going to live vicariously through her this summer.

43:03
And hopefully, she executes a few things.

43:06
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s so important.

43:13
You can do

43:15
whatever you want. Yeah. And he would have really enjoy the conversation I had with this guy. Last weekend. And he was I was on a call with him whenever we’re getting a party. And he said to me, she was like, Oh, I wonder if you’re this. Like, controlling, that was not what I was doing. I was just saying, like, Hey, you might want to slow down because cops are out and you’ve been drinking, whatever. And he’s like, I wonder if you’re this controlling, like, in the bedroom? Like, you know, would you tell someone, like move over to the left? Or do it this way? If you were in the bed with him? And I said, Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, what would you because I mean, you’re excited. You’re still enjoying it. So why, even though couldn’t be better, and you’re still enjoying it? That’s the thing. I know, I know, you would have loved it. I would. That’s the thing, though. Because if there’s an opportunity to enjoy it, I’m going to vocalize that. And that’s not what I expect, again, men are not used to women and women are not used to vocalize Hey, I don’t like this. Can you do this? But he wasn’t allowed to say how you want it.

44:32
Wait, what people having sex with people and not telling them what they like?

44:36
Yeah.

44:39
That hasn’t come up. Now that hasn’t come up. In my practice. When we talk about the sex talk. It’s usually somebody is not getting it as much as they want to get it.

44:47
And they’re not getting it, how they like to get it. But it’s not usually that something is not being vocalized.

44:53
Yeah.

44:55
But wait, timeout. So he he expected

44:58
fully,

45:00
he expected that a woman would have sex with him be marginally pleased and not try to enter the situation.

45:12
Right, like

45:20
unless you happen to like your own sexual needs.

45:28
If there’s a male What? Because

45:36
who wants to do good enough sex.

45:42
People may be ashamed for the kind of kink that they like.

45:48
They may be judged for that.

45:52
I guess it’s just, it’s just my my own experience, but

45:57
especially my partner, he takes it very serious. If

46:02
I’m not satisfied,

46:04
like I’m, like, he makes it a personal mission to be like, Nah, this is not.

46:09
Nope. You’re not gonna put this on my record. He said, No, you’re not

46:13
gonna put this on my record. I’m like,

46:17
Yeah, I haven’t.

46:18
I haven’t had any. Just personally, me personally, I’ve never had I have it. Mostly never. But haven’t had that kind of person in a really long time. But I have heard from friends of mine, that that’s kind of like what happens with this generation sexually.

46:37
And I also don’t care. Yeah, well, guys, the guys are just like, I showed up. Yeah, we have that me, but I don’t. I mean, I date men over a certain age. So I don’t know what happens. Like, under 20. Under 30.

46:54
I have friends who date on the 30th 29th. I’ll just not one of them people. Yeah. Um, so? Yeah, yeah.

47:06
Yeah, I did have I did have a 16 year old client. Well, I miss dearly. She moved away. But she, she did tell me that I was problematic. Because,

47:19
yeah, I was problematic

47:21
in relationships. She was coming to me, she she had a bad relationship with her stepmother. Her mother had mental health issues, and lived in another state. And her dad was a splits. I’ll say a single father, even though he had a wife, but she really wasn’t all that involved in raising her daughter. So I was almost like a proxy for for her. So we would talk about like things that she felt like she needed to talk to her mother about. And one of those was that she liked this guy. But she didn’t want to be direct, and tell him that she liked him.

47:55
And he likes some girls photo on Instagram, but he didn’t want to ask him if he like the girl on Instagram. And I was like, What the hell are you losing? By asking?

48:06
By not asking, What are you like, what are you losing? Go, I don’t understand. Like, if you get the information, then you can make an informed decision on what you want to do. Like I don’t understand. And she was all my guy, you are so direct, like you’re problematic.

48:25
And I was like, I don’t understand how advocating me get money, it’s Matt is a bad

48:30
thing. Like you should want to have as much information as you possibly can,

48:36
so that you can make an informed decision.

48:40
I don’t understand why you want to come in here and ask me what I think when you could just ask him, what do you think?

48:57
It’s not always a good thing for women to be direct. And the sort of and thinking clarity, right, women keep small and don’t take up a lot of space. And just like you know what I mean? Like that narrative is so happen, people like you and myself. We don’t subscribe to that. Like if there’s something to say, well, liner knowledge will say we won’t walk around the bush because we’ve learned that

49:27
Yeah,

49:28
so once again, I want to thank Dante, Mitchell hunter for coming on the show.

49:33
Tune in next week for the second part of the interview and I try to keep the shows around like 3040 minutes I realized people have lives and other things that they want to do. And so next week, you will get the conclusion of this this interview and I have to say, Dante, you are my favorite guest so far. Yes, I’m going to put that on me saying my favorite guest I had so much fun listening to the show back I had so much fun doing the show we laughed so much and I’m going to give you a sneak peek of next week’s episode right now.

50:08
So I see my eight year old self with my candy cigarette in my mouth on the phone listening to

50:13
your mother’s friends growing up growing up

50:19
the first thing that came to my mind

50:25
so tune in to see what my eight year old self and whatnot as a year old self as counselors how to do the story. And also if you want to submit a question for our what would you do segment let’s see if we can keep it going and see or find out what I do about my What would I do for this week? Or what would you do or what would whoever do for this week to see the conclusion of that story either on my Instagram maybe I’ll maybe I’ll I’ll talk about it on our Instagram Live maybe I’ll bring the Instagram lives back. I’ll think about it because I’m really really booked in my office. Thank God Jesus thank you Lord. I’m I’ve been really really books lately. So we’ll see if I can bring back the Instagram lives on Thursdays the real relationship wraps every series. I don’t know if I’m gonna bring it back just right now or wait until October but I definitely want to bring that back. However, next week, I’ll definitely tell you the conclusion of that story. And if you have a scenario you would like to submit for our what would you do make sure that you either hit us up in the DMZ

51:26
or send me an email at Black therapists podcast gmail.com

51:30
Okay, you out

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