Black Therapist Podcast Working while black with Holly Sawyer

Working while black

on the most recent episode of @blacktherapistpodcast we finish our interview with Dr Holly Sawyer where we discuss Working in PWC’s (aka predominately white companies) in Brown skin. 

We talk about the effect it has on our mental health when we work in work environments with very little Allies, and no HR support. 

A therapist can be the key to keeping it all together. 

Plus we cover the whole TI Tip Harris and great Hymen debate. And what would you do if your daughter’s father had similar habits.


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Finding happy seven steps to relationships that will not steal your joy is the new book by me Nikita Banks, a licensed psychotherapist and life strategist, leverage the knowledge and you’ll receive in this book to help you with the process of obtaining absolute clarity. Through the use of Guided Self exploration. This process is necessary to help you master all your relationships in 2019 and beyond going to amazon.com or black therapists podcast calm and grab your copy of the book guaranteed to help you redesign all your relationships based on two basic principle, health and happiness. Get your copy today. Welcome to the black therapist podcast, the black therapist podcasters podcast where we discuss the unique issues people of color face when dealing with mental health issues and mental health diagnosis. Now if you are new to our show, I am your host author a life strategist. psychotherapist Nikita Banks in private practice in my hometown of Brooklyn, New York. I am available for adult psychotherapy and coaching sessions. And you can find more information about that on my website Nikita Banks. com you can listen to our podcast everywhere podcasts are found Apple podcast, Google Play YouTube, SoundCloud, PIPA, Stitcher, I Heart Radio and black therapists podcast com. If you are mental health advocate or a therapist and you want to buy our podcast merchandise, you can do so by visiting our site. And if you want access to our free mental health tips, free online trainings, discounted selective services and resources do so by joining our mailing list by texting get happy all one word 266866 if you love the podcast, please like comment and share. We love to hear from you. And if you want to send me some feedback, guest suggestions or simply to say hey, you can contact us at our website, black therapists podcast.com Please be mindful that this episode and all the information that we provide here is just a resource and a tool to help get you started on your mental health journey. If you are feeling any mental health distress or you having any significant issues, please feel free to reach out to us so that we can find you a mental health provider in your area. Okay, let’s go Hey, guys. Okay, so if you are not on my mailing list, shame on you, because this Thursday we’re going to be doing our first workshop. And we’re really just trying to help people get clarity for their business goals for 2020 and beyond. Okay, so we are less than 60 days to a brand new decade, right? So we want to to start doing what you can do to utilize the resources that you have around you allow me Okay, Amy, help you get it and hit your business goals for the next three months, the next six months to get your clarity on getting those business ideas from concept to completion. Okay. This week we will have part two of our interview with Holly Sawyer, Dr. Holly Sawyer. Last week, we talked about being a parent of a child with special needs, specifically, parenting a child on the autism spectrum. And that was actually not why I wanted to do the interview with Holly. So I met Holly a little while earlier in the in the season when she bought one of our T shirts and we interacted on social media. Yes, it is really me when you interact with me on social media. Yes, I answer all of my questions. My dm that everything. Yes, it’s me. It’s me. So she hit me up. She had a book launch that she was working on. And she was like, Hey, girl, when I come to New York, you know, here’s my New York tour dates, and I went One of her tour dates and we had an amazing time and we connected at that

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time.

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And I had her on the show because I know that a lot of the work she does she does with women of color, and PwC, which is, well, you know why? Because PwC is when you say that people think it’s predominantly white colleges, which it could be, but of course, will be predominantly white companies or predominantly white work spaces, so I guess it would be PWWS but that don’t that don’t sound as good as PwC. So that’s what we talked about this week on the show last week, what would you do? There’s like no review on what would you do? I asked you last week to tell me how we as a show can better support men of color, who are dealing with mental health issues and man, if you are listening and there are topics that you want us to cover, I really want to get other men, clinicians on the show men if you are a clinician on the show, or a commission, if you are a nation and you would like to be on the show, like I’m talking really fast. I’m going to good mood right now. But if you want to be on the show and you there’s a topic that you would like to discuss, I would love to get more men on the show. I’ve had a few come on the show. This is not just a women’s podcast, I am a woman. So I don’t want to feel like I’m women explaining men’s issues. I really want more male clinicians to come on the show because your voice, your voice is so needed in this conversation, especially to change narratives around how black men see mental health and, you know, men of color period, but black and Hispanic men really seek counseling. And I’ll say that when I work in other environments, not in my private practice, even though my private practice now I work with a lot of women but I will say it’s probably about about 6040 with black men right now you guys are coming up and you are coming to to therapy, but you know, maybe you’re not as vocal women are a lot more vocal about everything. Maybe you’re not as vocal on your struggles. And we actually have a male is coming up soon. Who’s a mental health advocate. Say all of them At say, if you are a man who would like us to cover more topics geared towards men of color on the show, please let us know. And if you are a clinician of color who is a man or a male, and you want to come on the show to talk about issues that are near and dear to you and populations that you serve, please come on the show. Okay, send us an email at Black therapist podcast at gmail. com or go to black therapists podcast.com I don’t know if it’s slash be your guest or hit us up in the link and Instagram, it’ll take you directly to the profile where you can be our guest. And if you click on the BI guest tab, it will take your information it will take you to our production calendar and it will do our take you to our pre show questionnaire and that’s for everybody who’s listening and you want to be on the show. Okay, not feel uncomfortable. I’m going to do I’m going to do what would they do? Or what would you do for this week and it makes me feel uncomfortable, honestly, because you know what we’re going to talk about and talk about ti My pretty girl days now, I have never been a real fan of the TI show or I don’t even know what is it TTI in Chinese family values because I used to watch tiny and toys show and I working in domestic violence. I won’t speak on anything that I don’t know. I want to say that on top because I don’t know these people Tip No tiny, but I do know those the way the show was edited tiny and Toya. I got the impression that either there was a possibility of abusive behaviors at me She seemed very cautious about the things that she would do. And the the amount of control that Tip had over her even from in jail if you guys remember the show or if you know you got fired sticking go back on line and look it up like she was tiny looks shook it times when toy you would be like Hey girl, let’s just go out and do regular girl stuff your man is away Let me keep you occupied and like tipa come calling the phone and like everybody in the house needed couldn’t’ve dog need to shut up. And so I was I remember it speaking to my girlfriend about like, Damn, you know, because one of my friends she was in love with tip at the time. And she was like, she’s like controlling and I was like yeah, yeah. But for me at the at the time watching it not knowing whether or not it was a, you know, verbally abusive relationship or just a controlling situation. I

Unknown Speaker 8:55
instead of sit right with my spirit, so I never really watched any of the subsequent shows that came on that had to do with these people. I do remember like sometimes you know, you watching, washing the dishes and VH one is on the show come on and you see glimpses of people. I remember seeing Asia and then being on Instagram recently. Excuse me, I think the daughter’s name is data, and then see a picture of I recently and being like, gosh, she’s gorgeous. Like she’s really blossomed and grew into

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a beautiful young woman. And as a woman who did not grow up in a household with my father.

Unknown Speaker 9:36
But But did feel very protected by my dad.

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In certain cases,

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initially, when the news broke of tip going to check and see if the baby was still a virgin was just like, Okay, well, she’s 18 I understand You know, my, my initial, my initial thing was, I guess I’m just gonna go into how I feel about this this week without asking why I asked you what you would do or how you feel about it afterwards. But right now I’m just going with this go into it because I don’t wanna talk about this no more next week. It makes me feel very uncomfortable that I’m speaking about somebody’s virginity and hymens and stuff on a podcast. I think that’s the part of it that bothered me the most. But, you know, initially, I was just like, you know what, I think it’s a good thing that he’s protective as a father. And he’s like, if you want to be sexually intimate with my daughter, you got to go through me in order to get to her. And wow, conceptually, there’s a little girl inside of me that just wants to be protected. And, you know, I like being controlled a little bit. my boyfriends and husbands and whoever would beg to differ. boyfriends, husbands, you know what I mean? Perfect. Like, the people in my past and my president will be like, Nah, you know, I don’t know about that. I got to a certain degree I do like to be protected. But the violation of trust that he told people on the radio and internet and in a webs that he goes and get her home and check this. She doesn’t feel like she could not tell him about it if she didn’t want to

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take my boundaries stuff started going. And so

Unknown Speaker 11:41
yeah, I don’t know. Ladies, if you found out that your child’s father took them to get him in check every year around their birthday, like what would your response be like? How would you react to that? Just sounds gross. Saying it but like how would How would you feel about that this rescue I really want to hear from I really want to hear from the girl’s mother because we know that little girl doesn’t like it. She’s already commented or not commented but like six liked some comments on social that says how fathers control now i don’t think he gives a shed what anybody thinks about how he’s raising his children I get that and I don’t you know that that is what it is. But in terms of like being able to

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provide this young girl with support

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and I mean, she’s gotten a lot of love on social media but damn what that’s a daddy. And I don’t know the more I think about it, the more upset I feel about him as a man not giving her any autonomy to feel, however it is that she feels and explore her how feelings in that kind of way and being able to have the safety of Going to dad and say, Hey Dad, I’m in college. This is my first year I met a boy I really like him. I’m thinking about, you know what the next steps are? Because we know what 18 year old 17 year old 19 year old 20 year old boys and girls white. I mean, the girls wanted to don’t ever get it twisted that women don’t enjoy sex. Shout out to you of your sex. A sex therapist and you’re listening. I’ve been trying to get a sex therapist on the show for a really long time. Because I feel like sex is the only thing on the show that I haven’t talked about like I don’t pussyfoot around it and test them step my toe in a little bit. Check to see if the water was warm when a certain some episodes but I really want to talk about sex. Let’s talk about sex, baby. I’m sorry, I can’t say those words without singing. Shout out salt and pepper. Who is probably not listening, right? Whatever. But

Unknown Speaker 13:52
yeah, so I mean

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I just want to black in try to be honest. you for talking about that baby’s virginity

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a source of internet fodder. That’s gross. That part of it is is disgusting. I don’t I don’t know how I feel about

Unknown Speaker 14:14
him taking her to the gynecologist I think if you are a single father you would have to take your daughter to the gynecologist so that part doesn’t bother me. I don’t think you know having a doctor tell you if if she is or is not a virgin or not if she feels if she if she is comfortable with telling you that she’s not comfortable telling you that she shouldn’t be able to tell you that but um I definitely don’t like that it was discussed on the internet I definitely don’t like it if she feels for us to tell him I mean how am I sung with would go to the doctor when he got a certain age I wouldn’t wouldn’t be going into room with him. I wouldn’t I wouldn’t even ask anything. I would just ask the doctors everything right. Everything I And he called me my son asked me, you know, he’s like, Oh, I got certain symptoms or whatever what has Have you been doing? Have you done this? Have you done that is it did this. And, you know, you got to be honest with me to tell me what I could fix. But I don’t know I don’t have a daughter. I guess if I had a daughter, I’d be a little bit different about it, but my mother was my mother wasn’t me. And as a teenager, my mother, my mother should have probably been a little bit more proactive with me, but I was a second daughter. So I guess she was like, Listen, you will tell me whatever’s going on with you whenever it’s going on with you. And I mean, my I didn’t hide my virginity or lack thereof from my mother. I just my she asked me one day and you know, I told her what she needed to know. She looked at me I looked at her she left the room. That was the next

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I was like, are you a virgin? Nope. Okay, bye bye and end of it. But um, so yeah.

Unknown Speaker 16:00
Hope Did you give your child a little bit more leeway about the sex conversation that I got? But, you know, and again, I think I told this story on the show before previously, my i was i was my my virginity was was, I was saved my virginity was bought. That doesn’t sound great either. But

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my godfather when we were like young, maybe like

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910 11 years old, he just was like, Listen, don’t have any babies Promise me you will. You will finish school before you

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have sex.

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And me and my stepsister, my god. Sysco at the time was like promise. And then I think maybe a year or two later he died. So it was just a promise that we kept to him. And mother God sister was not I don’t think she was in in there for that conversation because she got pregnant very early. Or, you know, as she became a teenage mother but we we It was a promise that we made and we kept it and so I mean it was no payment check needed or no doctors offices needed we just he told us not to when we did I mean a night and I think peace I know sets before you graduate and no sex before and I don’t know if we kept dr no sex thing going on but I knew by the time I did have start having sex that you know I need to protect myself with I definitely didn’t need no babies. I don’t want any babies. So

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that’s that’s that.

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What a way to segue.

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We want to thank Dr. Holly sorry again for coming on the show.

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Guys, again, if you want to engage in this conversation with me on social, you can go on social media and talk about sip and his foolishness. And ladies, what would you do if you found out That that was like, Well,

Unknown Speaker 18:00
what?

Unknown Speaker 18:01
You know what I want to know, really, they go want to know what you would do if you found out that your child’s father took it to the GYN to get a virginity check. But I also want to know, what would the conversation look like for you as a mother if you didn’t know?

Unknown Speaker 18:20
Like, what would that what would the conversation look like if when when she came home, I wonder what that would look like.

Unknown Speaker 18:28
Because there’s a level of conversation that or a level of tact, sensitivity and understanding that needs to be needs to be had with that baby, about how she feels about her body and how she feels about sexuality. I can say this, I’m looking from looking at the pictures of her on social media. She’s definitely gorgeous. And if she don’t feel sexy she should, from the way she looks in the pictures in the clothing that she wears and stuff. But you know i don’t i don’t get somebody who’s men men’s is out there having sex with women’s so clearly women’s is out there having sex with men’s I mean if you out there doing it with everybody and anybody not caring about the sanctity of your marriage You got a girlfriend Riley and your wife on social media and all kinds of foolishness you in a marriage that you ain’t in and all you got multiple children or multiple baby mamas I mean clearly, you know defiled somebody else’s daughter, y’all let me get out of here before I tell the truth. Anyway, we’re going to get into the second part of the interview with Dr. Holly Sawyer right now is because I know that you do work with you do work with the black women in the workplace, working and work in white spaces.

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Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 19:50
So recently I’ve, you know, one of my last shows we did was about you know, that black be worried at work. And the lessons that I learned from that it just kind of the need for sisterhood and bonding in the workplace. I feel like especially in social work, like Social Work is so touchy feely, you’re like mental health stuff. Like it’s those touchy feely, you just assume that everybody that you meet along the journey is gonna be your friend. Yes. Tonight the truth, that ain’t the truth. And so, I definitely wanted to talk about being a black woman in a white work screen.

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Okay.

Unknown Speaker 20:31
A lot of my clients are dealing, you know, a lot of my clients are dealing with a conference conflicts who with people at their workplace that are women, like their women of color, and the other person, a woman of color. But I don’t know like the challenges that a lot of people face comes from being black and white workspaces. Whether it’s corporate America, whether it’s an education, like wherever you are. And it’s constantly hear this narrative of, it’s not okay to be black and be introverted.

Unknown Speaker 21:08
Wow, I just read something like that the other day. I don’t know who wrote something like that. I don’t know

Unknown Speaker 21:16
what it might have been. I don’t know. That’s all. I mean, my clients have been saying this for like,

Unknown Speaker 21:28
Well, I’ll tell you I have I have, I have a client who was a lawyer. She worked for a law firm and

Unknown Speaker 21:37
there was racial issues there. Wow. And part of it was cut but majority of it was cultural life. And I even spoke to my mother about the situation not telling the girls business, but because my mother’s worked at law firms all of her life. And I high powered law firms, you know, in DC But I didn’t understand like the cultural nuances that happens in the legal world. And I have a lot of clients who are black women who are attorneys as well. And so, one of the problems was that if she sat in her office with the door closed, people think she’s unapproachable where she didn’t go out with the for drinks after work. Like she wasn’t friendly. And I’ve had that in my office as well. Like previously, they used to have like yoga nights and like, bike rides, after work, I got a kid, I’ve got to get home and I’m a college, I gotta do my homework. I got like, a life outside of here. Like, I gotta do my nine to five and go home. Like, I’m not patronizing you guys. And so I might buy one of my best friends lecturing me like, yo, you gotta understand why people socialize over drinks. business deals are made over drinks. You gotta be able to like be in it to win it. And I like that. When I, when I get out of here, I just want to go home.

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And you shouldn’t be allowed to, but I feel like as a black woman, you’re not gonna win if you’re introverted and you’re not gonna win if you’re extroverted. So where do you show up? It’s like damned if you do damned if you don’t, because at the end of the day, you’re right, I have to kind of take care of so am I not allowed now so after my shift is over to go home and be with my family, like where my boundaries are they date they can be respected over me being like, No, I’m gonna go with my boundaries and damned if you don’t like me and I think navigating those spaces you have to make you have to make a choice on Okay, my family comes first my boundaries, my mental health. And I’m not here necessarily to know you like me. But are there other ways that you can gauge your life faces? Sure, you just have to figure out what that looks like and when and how you do it. But I don’t think that if you show up to the party, that’s what makes it even more likable because they’ll find something regardless, they’ll come up with something. So it’s always a damned if you do damned if you don’t always because they’ll come up with something else. They’ll come up with your hair, or come up with your outfit, how you may be talk, or you didn’t enunciate of a word correctly. The report that you did you got the promotion go if they always raise the bar, I just don’t ever think that you will just be one or 2% like by everybody in this majority light race. But I do believe though, again, you can navigate it by identifying what that looks like for you and being comfortable with it and get you a couple light allies. I try to win everybody over in the office. I work in a majority of always faces and it was awkward. I actually had a panic attack on my first day of work, because I had never, ever, ever in my years of working in such an old white office space. So you’re talking about out of 50 employees, you’re the your number two as far as a black female face. The other black person doesn’t recognize you because they’re so assimilated. They’ll say hi, but they have coming over to see like how you make a Now how are you really knowing that now it’s another one of you in the presence because they can they I won’t say that she felt threatened. But I’ll just say she did make a present for me either. If I was in a space where I was only black person, I saw another one. Come here, honey. Make friends.

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Yes, I know you. Like

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the narrative behind the story that I told in the previous thing was I felt bad for Her

Unknown Speaker 26:02
social worker, she works in a corporate environment. I couldn’t do consulting work for their I’m not in the office. And apparently, I had to raise and she was like nobody respects my authority as this new position or whatever. Johnson a memo out like nobody, I didn’t even get a memo that you gotta raise first of all and it’s not like I speak to you and the janitor or the CEO of this company, any different like everybody is the same to me. So it was really about her fighting for ego and respect and her position in the workplace. And so for me as a black woman, I could totally identify with that, but I was like, but I’m not your enemy.

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Like I’m not who you should know is vitriol.

Unknown Speaker 26:51
For me, I’m from a pro black community. I’ve gone to all black schools i’ve i’ve grew up in a completely black community. What is black history in school? So I don’t know a lot of like being in white spaces. I only really truly met white people. I’m sure I bet white people before this, but I really met white people for real in high school.

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Why?

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to Alexandria Virginia?

Unknown Speaker 27:20
Best Friend, when I in ninth grade was a white girl. Her name was Carol. Carol, how white of a name is Carol. But she was my best friend in ninth grade until she moved away. And like that was like my first introduction of like being in a white person’s home. And I getting to know white people. So for majority of my adult life, I worked at Brown spaces because that’s just where I felt the most comfortable and not that I felt uncomfortable in white spaces. But it was just kind of where I felt the most comfortable. And so when I went to Get my master’s degree and I worked in the court system. There was my

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field instructor was a white girl.

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Wow, I

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being in Social Work school to me, it gave me the language to put to the uncomfortableness that comes with dealing with white people out micro aggressions. I got no micro aggressions without thing. So learning the language, it high end my sensitivity to some of the behavior. When I went on the job interview, you know, as a 30, you know, 30 year old woman, or however old I was at the time, and the girl was like, Oh, you look so polished. Like it’s a freakin job interview. What did you think I was going to come in here? Like dress like so that was annoying. And wow, there was a time there was it was like five of us colored

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and

Unknown Speaker 29:00
Me and a girl was it was with next to each other, to the three black people that worked in this office like literally at that particular point of the office. We’re all sitting together. I wasn’t like I was doing something on the computer and they were sitting behind me. And she looks at me and she calls out the other girls name. So she said she Nika. Your groups are like your groups are here. It’s time to do your when your groups. I was doing group work at the time. And so she Nick and I both looked because you’re looking at me. I do the group called Xiaomi because they said, Did you meet me or you did we should Nika, and she was like, she rolled her

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head

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in her eyes, put her hands on her hips, and was like I said, Nikita

Unknown Speaker 29:45
told me it should Nika looked at each other, like who is this?

Unknown Speaker 29:49
Right?

Unknown Speaker 29:50
So I caught I caught myself and I was like, You know what, I’ll be out in a minute. coming right out.

Unknown Speaker 29:58
I got pulled in the office for insubordinate

Unknown Speaker 30:04
She told me she told me that I was rude and that I don’t know how I present

Unknown Speaker 30:15
and I that I need to be more mindful of my body language and stuff. So when she said that I like my back my face reacted media Lee and she was like look at your face and I was like with all due respect. What I will do is I’ll be more introspective and I’ll be more mindful of my body language if you be mindful of yours. Number one, you call it shindig you call me Shoemaker to black women are not the same people as first of all. Second of all, you rolled your eyes and rolled your head as if you was gonna knock a few buck.

Unknown Speaker 30:51
I said

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third of all, I said I go to I said I have a family. I go to I go to work. I go to school. Come here, this is the end. I said I paid. I said I paid NYU a lot of money to be here.

Unknown Speaker 31:09
I said, but on the totem pole of the things I have to do in my life this is fourth avatar whole new asshole in that office because I had had enough this is not the left first time I went to school I told my feel instructor my film instructor was like, I’m going to call right away. Don’t you worry about that I told about therapists but therapist was like, Nikki, you’re not gonna let that be when like Goldie go back in there and get what you need. You just need your hours go in there and get what you need. Like if you can’t do it, you can’t do it. But if you can’t do it, you’re not going to allow her to turn you away. I got home that night. No lie. I wrote her

Unknown Speaker 31:53
email. Because I got to when I tell you I cursed her out using the nicest words.

Unknown Speaker 32:00
pulled out every derogatory word that I could use in the English vocabulary without using the V words.

Unknown Speaker 32:10
I sent her an email and it said, I appreciate you allow me

Unknown Speaker 32:18
to laugh. I said, I appreciate you allowing me the safe space to express my frustration with you.

Unknown Speaker 32:25
I

Unknown Speaker 32:27
I really hope that we have, you know, I look forward to us having a better working relationship moving forward.

Unknown Speaker 32:36
When I got to work the next day the white woman was like, Can I talk to you for a minute? I was like, Yes, she was like, I really appreciated your email.

Unknown Speaker 32:45
I really think that you’re getting it. I was like, Uh huh.

Unknown Speaker 32:51
I just I just wanted this to go way down like because I have said everything that I say after that. She didn’t try me no more. She Give me no more issues and no more problems. But that was a little glimpse of me being a white workspaces. I cannot imagine what other people go to in these environments that are not as touchy feely.

Unknown Speaker 33:20
Yeah, yeah. I

Unknown Speaker 33:22
like when she rolled her eyes and roll her head and put her hand on her hips like all of the black people in the room was like

Unknown Speaker 33:33
exactly like we

Unknown Speaker 33:43
so how do you how do you advise women in the workplace to endure this kind of

Unknown Speaker 33:53
environment or do you cuz I tell people do with get what you need? What do you do here is job my main job job you gotta do you pay you, you gotta keep your life so you keep the drain off your baby’s face. What do you

Unknown Speaker 34:06
know? And I think that’s my vein too, because I will say this, not only my own experience, but a lot of my clients experiences, HR is not supportive, HR, we’re making those who are loose, and then you’re still not supportive because at the end of the day, they don’t want to investigate. This person may be not only the CO but they may have a high title a May. They may be somebody was like, Oh no, we can’t investigate. Oh, no, we can’t say oh, no, we can’t write a we can’t do what we should normally be doing. So what I encourage people if they if they want a wall with HR, I encourage people to not have a verbal conversation but start making your paper trail. And what I mean by that is, if somebody you know, Caucasian, male or female because I we have problems with white men, specifically gay white men, And they come for me for no reason. And so what I do is, you know, first of all, are you cross you? Did you get me confused type conversations to me? And I’m like, wait a minute. Exactly. We’re both to licensed professional. I don’t know who you think you’re talking to. But But let me go ahead and are you out? Since you got me wrinkles. So I will get on the email and I’ll create a paper trail because they like it. They’ll respond back and with that paper trail when you have them when HR has not done what they’re supposed to do, you collected that data, you can go to EEOC. And I have about two miles right now who are in litigation, because their supervisors felt like it was comfortable to call them or their co workers in words, their co workers, they have supervisor felt like it was okay to look them Fairly over for promotion because they were black and give it to their white counterparts and told them as such. So I think, you know, for the most part, and these always faces, they don’t really understand when you go toe to toe to them where language, but they do understand when it is put in black and white when their job or their paycheck or they ask is on the line. So something has to be on the line for them to really do it. Get the clear message in my experience. And then going back to what you say, you gotta ask my clients all the time. How important is this to you? Because it’s clear that it’s messing with your mental health, your physical health, what can we do to help you transition out to either starting your own thing, or you looking for another job, but staying here clearly is not the answer. So what can we do? And I just worked with him for that. I really do because working with environment for a paycheck, I mean, I don’t know what that sounds like. I don’t know that Looks like so I don’t encourage it but I do empower you to come up with the either or choice but we know saying is not an option especially with black women being and not even black women and to me well degree well educated but the respect factor isn’t there just because you are like the unicorn in the room with basically all of them so what kind of they aren’t even down to find you any way any and if you’re a supervisor or you have any type of cool cool title or power or forget about it, you’re going to be picked that in every instance because that was so guys got picked over for this conditioning you got it

Unknown Speaker 37:39
and and that’s what I try to empower them with.

Unknown Speaker 37:44
I put on the the

Unknown Speaker 37:49
podcast, in that previous work episode, where your competence, you competence affects your confidence. I mess it up

Unknown Speaker 38:00
Your confidence affects your hands. And your competence affects you. And with with black women specifically, I always have to remind them, yeah, that person that you dropped it in, like you and He made you felt like you wasn’t doing a good job and he was trying to get you off your game. But that’s because they were trying to get you off your game. Like we always are higher educated, we have more data, we do a lot more of the vape they do and we get, we feel like we have less options and less resources. And part of that is just us. Not

Unknown Speaker 38:37
that knowing that we could go just as far as

Unknown Speaker 38:42
they can, when they can to like some of us, we don’t need all of the things that we need. Like even even for for me, I when I graduated, I was like, I’ve gotta get my DSW because I feel like I need to be a doctor. Like I need to be back to somebody and then I looked at the money’s. And I was like, the money.

Unknown Speaker 39:04
The same exact thing.

Unknown Speaker 39:10
Am I right? Like I know some doctors and they’re like, well, I still gotta get my LCS w so you’re ahead of me.

Unknown Speaker 39:18
If, if I gotta go further just for the bragging rights, just for somebody to be like, Oh, she’s Dr. So and so I might as well go get an honorary doctorate degree, so where the day rather than spend another 200 you know, $300,000 on education and get my doctorate like it’s it doesn’t make sense, if I’m not going to teach are not going to do something with it. But we always feel like we have to show up, it’d be better, it’d be best to go harder and and those are not bad things. But sometimes that gets in the way of us actually being prepared a ready because a lot of us are prepared for the vision that we have for our lives right now. And we Don’t need to read another book not taking the course not speak to another person not get another mentor we don’t need to do anything but get out of our own way have faith and just

Unknown Speaker 40:10
I want to say this to whatever we go over the bar when they raise it guess what they do they raise it again. So now you got the doctorate and guess what they raise it again. And the reason why I’m pointing this out because it happened to me. I have my masters and I was like, Okay, I want to teach and then it was like back then you only need two semesters to teach. But then we started getting a higher education we started as john said, it was like knowing each other back then Okay, got my doctorate. Now you got your doctorate. Oh, well, you need to be published. You need to be in this in this in this like, it’s always going to be another mark for them to be like that. You gotta reach this you gotta be sure. So I had to dial back and I teach my clients is to win at is enough. It is They can accept you for where you are at with what you have, then you can take your show on the road. But you don’t have to keep trying to jump through these imaginary siblings or these hoops will be viruses, you’ll never reach it because the game keeps changing on purpose, so that you can’t reach that level. And it’s unfortunate and even and then say you do get there. So you do get there. It’s not a good space to be because they’re going to make you regret that you even got the promotion, the title, whatever that thing is that you’re reaching towards.

Unknown Speaker 41:36
Yeah, it’s such a it’s such a very

Unknown Speaker 41:40
I don’t know, I think it goes back to what you said, you got to have that confidence and to know that whatever you start out to build and do for yourself is enough. And once you accept that, as such, I think whatever you’re meant to do to be to have in whatever space you’re in, it’ll come to you and it won’t have to feel like it’s a fight. Like you’re always defending something, and I’m not trying to make it look like you know, black women are, you know the issue here but I do want them to be able to feel empowered and confident within themselves that

Unknown Speaker 42:13
they are enough.

Unknown Speaker 42:17
Yeah. Now of course if they’re going to get an hour feel where you need to have the hours like la therapy, you know, medical school, things like that, that’s something different so that I can get.

Unknown Speaker 42:30
Yeah. And you gotta do what you gotta do in those environments. Yeah, that was me. I told that story a number times I was in an environment it was it culturally competent, they bought the beat no one really, but they could they terms of like our culturally responsiveness to our clients. It wasn’t a good work environment. For me. It wasn’t a good place for me period. Like I just wasn’t a good fit for you know, just for the workplace culture. Okay, um, and they are Like, I took my LCS w exam, they told me they don’t believe I took my exam like I paid $400 to not take the right exam, they needed to see proof that I took the exam which was not a damn business like it was a lot of like foolishness. Because I didn’t need my LCS w even be in that environment. So why you need to see my test results is beyond me when I didn’t have anything to prove, and I’ll definitely what my test results, but I got my LCS W to get another job interview and to go into private practice. And I got my results on a Wednesday. I interviewed on a Thursday I quit on Friday.

Unknown Speaker 43:47
My therapist is like when I told her when I was working. He was like girl, he said I worked there. I worked there probably before you were born he was I get what you need to get out of there. Wow. He said, get what you need and get out of there. So he, he, he tapped into about their face, like I worked where he worked and it wasn’t like he made a recommendation or whatever it was just like, this is where I’m working. And he was like, What?

Unknown Speaker 44:12
Okay. But um, you know, like, I don’t have to explain anything to him culturally. And he’s a he’s a white man, you guys, he’s old and you

Unknown Speaker 44:23
say that every episode.

Unknown Speaker 44:25
But, um,

Unknown Speaker 44:26
you know, it was helpful to have somebody that was was culturally responsive for me. And for me, I picked up having a white therapist, which became a fear of mine as a black therapist. I wanted somebody who didn’t look like me, okay, to teach me privilege. Like I didn’t feel privileged as a black woman, and I felt like everybody around me thought the same and so there was a limitation or like what my achievement level was, because that was kind of how it felt that everybody around me felt. I wanted to go to the most entitled person on the planet and who is more entitled in God’s chosen, I’ll say it air quotes. So I got this therapist and he just thought differently, but he had clawed his way up from like poverty, even though he was a white guy, so it just made it felt like I was able to kind of bond with her home. And at that point, there weren’t a lot of other black conditions that I could have even gone to if I wanted to. So black clinician or somebody who I felt like over identify would be because even though you may be black, our stories don’t have to be the same. I don’t want you dismissing my, my black experience because if you think it’s similar to your black anybody else’s black experience transposed onto me, but when I when I went to school, it became a narrative of mine like oh my god, what if what if people don’t When it comes to me, because I’m a black therapist, what it’s like people don’t want to come to me, because I’m a black therapist, because I didn’t want to have a black therapist. And it wasn’t that I didn’t want to have a black therapist. I just wanted a completely different mindset. And I don’t know what I thought therapy was, but I kind of wanted.

Unknown Speaker 46:15
I wanted

Unknown Speaker 46:17
to get insight, a different kind of insight from somebody who was just culturally different than me.

Unknown Speaker 46:26
Because nobody in my mind, I was like, nobody I want to, I want to do impossible things. And nobody is more entitled to feel like they deserve to do impossible things in a white guy. I want to go to a white guy. I want to see what that life is like. That was like my mindset at that time. But I was like, you know, this, I’ve done the black thing. This is cute.

Unknown Speaker 46:54
Like, that was kind

Unknown Speaker 46:54
of like my mindset. So when I decided that I wanted to be a therapist, I was like, Oh my God. What if other black people feel like I do? And there there are black people that was like, Girl, I’m not coming to you, I don’t do black people. And I was like, Okay, I’m cool.

Unknown Speaker 47:15
It’s plenty white people here, girl, oh,

Unknown Speaker 47:18
I got it. You know, and I’m over. I’m over that, you know, and I thank God that I know so many amazing black traditions and I’ve like immersed myself in, you know, practices where I’ve like been it all like I know amazing clinicians of all kinds, but just to be very proud of the work that we do. As black people coming back to want to utilize our talents, skills and ability to heal our community is like amazing. So I appreciate people like you, and everybody that comes to the show and all of the cleanliness Coalition’s that I follow, and clinicians that do this work because our community needs us so much.

Unknown Speaker 48:00
But I wanted to just make it okay to the people, especially people of color one go to therapy to if you find that you are therapy shopping so far, that’s fair for shopping brother, that’s fine. Because sometimes you may not have a connection with the therapy. So it’s okay if you go and seek out someone else. You don’t have to be stuck with that one particular therapists that you are finding that there’s not a connection and I think that’s a myth or a misnomer. People color may have when seeking therapy. So I’m glad you brought that out to say, Listen, I’m trying to ride your therapist, but this is the one that actually worked for me.

Unknown Speaker 48:41
Yeah, I have some some horrible white therapists in the past too, just because that’s what I was offered. Why exactly. But this one, you know, this this guy stuck with me and he go hard, and that’s what I like about about him and like I said, he understands not what it’s like to be Lack of America, but he does understand how it feels to be a minority in an environment where, you know, you’re you’re not not part of the majority because growing up in the projects as a Jewish guy, hips, that’s something I want to do. So I got you know, he had his own struggles but it’s not that it’s not the same and so just being able to go to somebody who at least struggle in their life makes a lot of the difference because the things that I hear that right clinician to say to people

Unknown Speaker 49:35
I’ll be like a you to jump over the table. You did run out the door like

Unknown Speaker 49:43
this bad white therapist there. But you know, thank God, that’s not my experience.

Unknown Speaker 49:53
Previously, we talked about you having a towel with special needs. What is one A

Unknown Speaker 50:02
piece of advice you would give a parent going through that only because as parents period is very hard to feel like we can care for ourselves. And so there’s very much value in being able to find a space where there is care for the caregiver. So, in terms of like self care, like what do you practice or what would you suggest to somebody who is going through that as

Unknown Speaker 50:32
well as just a difficult time parenting parents exhausting period,

Unknown Speaker 50:36
um, don’t be afraid to join parents and group when I know my son was early diagnosed. I joined an autism for mothers group out in DC actually join several of them but there was one in particular where it was older black woman and it felt such like a community. They embracing their children who were very low functioning I’m in Britain shares, some had to have, like the actual speech boxes from parents had to actually, you know, take care of the children who were diapers. So I got to see like a wide variety of spectrum, if you will. And just hearing the story of other parents who before me had started this journey, what it looked like some of them they waste resources without question. And then I went to another support group. That was more, I would say culturally, you know, different so it wasn’t just all black women, it was white, it was Hispanic. And so that was a little different in it in itself because that kind of felt like a process to more where you were able to go in and kind of talk about your day or your struggles that you may be having are facing when it comes to being a parent navigating resources, where I kind of went to kind of like new star, and then I joined without my kids signed up for like something that they call like special sports activities for children who are on a spectrum. So he would do flag football on the weekends with other kids that were on a spectrum or had other disabilities, whether they were physical intellectual, so again, so I’m in another community. So I joined different humanity, that was a relief, not only for me, but for him. So he could again, not just be around school children, he was never ever and especially a class can be dangerous, high functioning, but I still wanted to provide some type of normalcy for him and for myself and get the help and resources. So that was what really helped me the most therapy and putting yourself in support groups with other women and our families who are going through the same thing that could really really support you of making healthy through the process, because it’s hard to navigate around.

Unknown Speaker 52:53
Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 52:55
that is,

Unknown Speaker 52:57
I think tell people about your

Unknown Speaker 52:59
book. Oh, Okay, so I was saying what God is alive this year I published a workbook called is time to talk about trauma. You can buy it off my website and my first therapy calm. I’m definitely have my Friday classes, my first therapy. And so the workbook is basically for people who nice

Unknown Speaker 53:19
first therapy.

Unknown Speaker 53:20
com. Thank you. And that’s also my handle on Instagram and Facebook. Blessed the workbook basically was created out of the strength of people who are saying, you know, I’ve never been to therapy, I don’t know what it’s like, I don’t know what to say, I don’t know what to do. Or I know I’m having some issues, but how do I go about doing this therapy thing? So that workbook is kind of like bridging the gap for those persons who are like trying to figure it out, but just only know how to navigate it just yet. And so in this workbook, as you know, I have a safety plan for people or if you are a parent, do you feel like your child Risk of risky behaviors that are not good intro that could be cutting over using substances dancing Missy lyst, or even a sexy plan for an adult because I’ve met adults who say, well, they have a loved one that they care for, who is a, you know, risk of harming themselves because they tried to commit suicide before that, besides the thank you plan. I have had a self assessment workplace by now. Depression. I have a resource guide in there for people who are looking to find therapists but don’t know how to go about little therapist and then there’s a script that you can ask them different questions to see if this is the cynical fate for you. And if you want to move forward with that the European there’s journal prompts for people to kind of check their rationale or irrational thinking and their behaviors, how to identify triggers, but it’s just chocolate so much information. If people could stick around and go to certain parts and do when they’re ready to go to therapy. They should fix the workbook with them. So that they can say, Hey, this is what I started to navigate or work through, or what over life work through on process with you while I’m in session.

Unknown Speaker 55:09
Okay, yeah. And what I like about the book is it’s it’s what we the business calls psycho educational,

Unknown Speaker 55:16
okay. And

Unknown Speaker 55:18
all that means in layman’s terms, it explains, it explains different diagnosis. Even for people if you are not diagnosed, but you have a family member who is diagnosed, I think it’s really helpful to be able to kind of like utilize the workbook to process not only your feelings, but to kind of give you a little bit of insight of some of the things that you and a family member would expect or could expect, you know, if you’re diving into that mental health, wellness journey, so I like this. I like this book is not super heavy, super light. It was like the perfect business. of like explaining to people what, what what you need to know if you are starting out

Unknown Speaker 56:09
on this journey

Unknown Speaker 56:11
if you’re starting out here it is. This is kind of like the little map thing. You know, once you get there every single bag that you pack for this journey, so repetition is all come with some stuff, but that’s okay. That is okay. Because that’s what you said before.

Unknown Speaker 56:30
Okay, so where’s your practice?

Unknown Speaker 56:33
I know you said Philly. Yeah, like, they could just contact you through the website if they need the point, man. That’s it.

Unknown Speaker 56:39
Yeah, so I’m located in Mount Airy, which is a part of a little area in Philadelphia, the Mount Airy area. And if people are interested in a phone consultation, this is where they can go to my website or sign up for a consultation call. And that’s really much it. We’ll go from there.

Unknown Speaker 57:00
Okay, do you do supervision because I think I tagged you in something yesterday, somebody was like they needed guidance in Philly. And I was like, connect with Holly.

Unknown Speaker 57:08
Um, I didn’t get the tag. But yeah, I do supervision. I totally am. I am gearing up to actually do some visual, but I do individuals in between time Yes.

Unknown Speaker 57:21
Yes, ma’am.

Unknown Speaker 57:23
So see

Unknown Speaker 57:24
what thank you because you are this super amazing and I love what you are doing with the podcast and yours. And let me tell you, your part and this is I wrote it, but I want to share this with your audience. The reason why, first of all, let me just be clear on Blab, I am not a podcast person, because for me, it’s just longer than like 20 minutes. I like just lose interest. But I will say I don’t do that with your podcast. You keep me laughing You keep me entertained in a good educational way. You have topics that are like, wait a minute, you How do I deal with a family member? like, yo, how does that work? If I want to cut this person off, we’ll reconnect over something that happened maybe 1020 years ago. Like, these are things that I think I have conversations with my friends into myself, and they’re just so down to earth and not over, I would say, like my head, and it just makes me feel so comfortable. So I just want to say thank you for such a Down to Earth podcast that is really impactful. And I just really appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker 58:35
Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 58:39
This is a weird journey for me. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 58:42
Um, I don’t think a lot of people know that I, you know, my, my undergraduate is in communications. And so this is kind of it. I feel like and I tell my my clients all the time when they’re going through those journeys, with with,

Unknown Speaker 58:57
you know, in a work environment and I let them know, like,

Unknown Speaker 59:01
I feel like all of the careers that I had was God preparing me for what I’m supposed to do now.

Unknown Speaker 59:08
Because I worked in communications, you know, I’ve I taught, actually did hair for a while.

Unknown Speaker 59:18
I did public relations, like all of my careers basically, even. And I did, I was a journalist as well. So like all of my career has kind of prepared me for this, but this is the most transparent thing I’ve ever done. And it’s very against very lonely just kind of speaking into a mic and, you know, you kids room. That’s how I started out in my son’s room when he was when he went off to school. And so you never know how it’s going to land. So real. And so I really appreciate you and when other people tell me that because these are conversations that I’m having in my head I’m just saying,

Unknown Speaker 1:00:01
okay, okay, but they’re good. They’re good conversations. And I think you being so bold, maybe it’s the New Yorker a new I don’t know. But I just say that these are spaces that a lot of people just don’t embark on. And I just love your boldness and be like, no, this is the real shit that I have on my head and guess what podcasting it and so that’s I think that’s another reason why I resonate not only with you as a person because you’re just awesome. But your podcast is just like y’all we think it is. And we really don’t know how to navigate a lot of this stuff that all of your podcasts especially not just one episode, honey, all your life. But I did it is a conversation that you had and that I promise you will not navigate on. We’re just having a conversation with Dr. Carson, about the person we need to be having the conversation with you. Thank you for all you do. I really appreciate it. Thank Keep on having you on the podcast.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:03
Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:05
I appreciate it. Appreciate you. Okay, you said at the same time

Unknown Speaker 1:01:13
for so I appreciate I appreciate I want

Unknown Speaker 1:01:17
to let you know because we miss each other when you came down but I’m gonna lift you up

Unknown Speaker 1:01:22
well, when I came down there was a time to do anything else but what I came down there for.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:30
However, I will be that Okay.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:34
Sure, sure.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:38
I don’t know if you remember what the weather was. It was

Unknown Speaker 1:01:46
more reasons to come more often now.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:50
What the hell are they talking about? But you

Unknown Speaker 1:01:53
know, I totally get it and then we will definitely have to hook up lunch, dinner or

Unknown Speaker 1:02:01
Yeah you know what actually some lady in the store told me that there’s a there’s a

Unknown Speaker 1:02:08
grocery store is in South Philly okay

Unknown Speaker 1:02:15
maybe it’s West Philly I think it’s West Philly because when she said it I was thinking of fresh prints that they sell the best sweet potato pie okay in Philly and make the line is out the black so I’m like on a quest to find this place. Okay, so yeah, I’ll be around Sure.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:35
Booty and I’m a fatty and it’s another reason why I like Chicago.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:41
I like to eat too bad as a bear. You

Unknown Speaker 1:02:46
know what I’m always open for new for new desserts, new restaurants. I’m always open.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:52
If you go home, go two batters and buried.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:57
July I will and I’m going to text you

Unknown Speaker 1:03:00
is buried. I will it’s black old guy. So if you’re listening, that isn’t berries, but yo

Unknown Speaker 1:03:09
they have a sweet potato. Sweet potato. What is it?

Unknown Speaker 1:03:15
Man?

Unknown Speaker 1:03:16
Oh, Jesus let me get let me let me go. Oh yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:03:19
okay honey.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:21
They have a plethora of like they have a waffle platter

Unknown Speaker 1:03:27
wow

Unknown Speaker 1:03:29
that’s step branches. I’m telling you I like us what is a sweet potato waffle? But you

Unknown Speaker 1:03:38
are very different

Unknown Speaker 1:03:41
that’s only one they have four different kinds.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:47
But I’ve never had four different kinds of waffles in my life and they played it and tell you what to what to how to pair it. Wow, it comes sweet potato waffle comes with chicken ditch, desert chicken and waffles. But you cannot use Sarah

Unknown Speaker 1:04:07
you eat it just like that. Wow

Unknown Speaker 1:04:12
okay,

Unknown Speaker 1:04:13
they will not give you Sarah up they will tell you know, it doesn’t come with Sarah.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:17
Wow so it’s not that hasn’t been good if you can eat a waffle without her with Sarah

Unknown Speaker 1:04:26
Yeah, they played their food they tell you they tell you how to eat it and then you’re not getting a substitution

Unknown Speaker 1:04:35
well if you can hear waffle without syrup, man I’m sold. I’m totally sold. I appreciate that. I will definitely look them up when I go back home. And I look you up soon as I touch back down to New York honey.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:57
Come and show you some good food. What’s up around your way? Yeah

Unknown Speaker 1:05:03
Alright guys

Unknown Speaker 1:05:07
it’s another episode of black therapist podcast okay guys

Unknown Speaker 1:05:12
so once again we want to thank Dr. Holly Sonia for coming on the show and blessing us with this episode I I do like having had to said this before I do like having guests come on the podcast, it’s a wonderful mix for me to hear what other people think about the show and just to kind of have them on and see what our dynamic is. I like it even more honestly, if I know the clinician or if it’s somebody I love interacting with online, or if it’s somebody that I know so if you’re looking to get on the show and you’ve interacted with me a little bit more, it makes it a little bit easier for me to know if you You and I will judge will gel it will mix together like macaroni and cheese.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:55
And so

Unknown Speaker 1:05:58
you know, I do like having a more gas, it is my intention to have more guests. But to me it isn’t it’s a lot of work production wise in order to do it. And so if you have reached out to me to be on the show, I’m going to get everybody who has reached out to me to be on the show as production increases or the production schedule goes on. And if you haven’t joined our mailing list yet, you might want to hurry up and do it because I’m offering up some free and low cost coaching sessions. So the best way to get the low cost coaching sessions the free stuff I mean, they’re not going to be low cost forever cuz I got, you know, like Bill,

Unknown Speaker 1:06:39
but

Unknown Speaker 1:06:41
Christmas is coming up. But right now I’m doing a series of sessions. That will be you know, $100 at the most probably under $100 are going to be group coaching things. They’re going to definitely be under $100 for the first few weeks that I do them in the this one this week is for So if you want to get information about that one, I think we have maybe a few slots left I, I kept it very intimate because we’re going to be talking about your actual business ideas, I want to get feedback from you guys live, my goal is that people come on there that are going to be live and going to actually get some actionable steps from the workshop, like, I don’t want to just do like a pre recorded workshop that I could just, you know, tell you why I’m so great and why you should work with me, I really want to work with people and get live feedback, because that’s the reason that I’m doing it. And that’s the reason that it’s free. And that’s the reason that it’s low cost, but it won’t be that way for long. Once I refine what I’m going to refine and tweak what I want to tweak.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:43
It’s gonna it’s because it’s going to go out because

Unknown Speaker 1:07:46
I know when it comes to coaching and when it comes to like doing the business end of it, and this is strictly business coaching. It’s not really life coaching per se. It’s not really you know, Relationship Coaching, like business coaching stuff. I’m very, very quick and I can’t be this quick and therapy sessions because it’s a different you know, therapy and coaching are cousins. They’re not they, they’re not siblings. They are not twins, they are cousins. And so, you know, I get to kind of utilize my skills and my skill sets in a different way to bring clarity to someone’s business idea and like I said, My goal is to start this week to move people from concept to completion and their business goals for 2020 and beyond.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:40
Okay, okay.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:45
We’ve listened to another episode of black their butts podcast be well,

Unknown Speaker 1:08:49
thank you guys for listening to another episode of black their podcast. Once again, you can follow us on all our social media sites at Black Bear podcast on Instagram, and on On Twitter as well as black in therapy on Facebook or you can follow your host me Miss MS in IK I think on Instagram and Twitter as well as you can find out any information about me at Nikita in IKITA Banks calm and on the show’s website laughs therapists podcast calm and don’t forget if you want to send us any general feedback show suggestions, show topics for get ideas please feel free to drop us an email at Black therapist podcast at gmail. com Thank you be well

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